Conservative vs Republican
Tuesday is election day, and one very closely watched race is the 23rd New York Congressional district.
For those not following, the district is described as “conservative” despite being carried by President Obama in 2008. The seat became vacant when the Republican occupant took a cabinet job. The Republican nominee was a woman whose name reminded me of Fozzie Bear from the Muppets.
(After less than extensive research, it seems her name is Dede Scozzafava or something like that.)
The problem is, conservatives did not get a warm feeling from Scozzie. Scozzie Wozzy simply wasn’t Fozzy, or fuzzy, or something like that.
Ok, as much fun as it is to do that, the serious issue is that She was seen as a very liberal Republican. Given that this is New York, this seems normal.
Yet conservatives were so up in arms that they decided to throw their support behind Doug Hoffman, who until then was known for…well, nothing really.
Third parties usually run, and quickly fade. Yet everything changed when Sarah Palin endorsed Hoffman. Fred Thompson and Sean Hannity lined up behind him as well.
Days before the election, Scozzafava dropped out. The conservative candidate knocked out the Republican candidate, as they both faced off against the Democrat, who is known for…well, nothing.
The question I am asking myself as a conservative Republican is this.
Is this a good thing?
The answer?
I really honestly don’t know.
I have thought about this on a general level and specifically related to this particular race.
On a genera level, it bothers me when somebody says, “I’m not a Republican. I’m a conservative.” For one thing, many of them say this with a smugness that is normally reserved for liberals. Then again, you will not hear any of them claim they are a liberal or a leftist. They hide behind phony words like “progressive.” At least the conservatives are bragging about who they are, rather than denying who they are.
Yet it still bothers me because in general I can’t stand third party candidates.
I love these right of center people that brag about voting for the Constitution Pasrty candidate, or the Libertarian, or the American Independent. These same people also voted for Ralph Nader in some cases. They like the attention of being “rebels.” Ask a Ron Paul supporter why he is a Republican, and they have no idea.
We are a two party system. It works. We don’t have coalition governments, which is why we are not like Israel or Italy changing governments every few minutes.
I am a conservative. I also believe in the Republican Party. It is the party committed to low taxes and dead terrorists. It is the party of individual freedom and liberty. The party has had people who have strayed from the ideals, but the ideals are still noble.
Most importantly, I am not interested in ideological purity. I am interested in winning. Conservatives that spend every waking night praying for the next Ronald Reagan fail to grasp that Reagan did not become Reagan until he was elected.
Winners get to govern. Losers get to obstruct. Republicans and conservatives are currently trying to slow liberalism. That is not the same as advancing conservatism.
I speak around the country, and I bring up what Rahm Emanuel did in 2006. He went around the country recruiting right-wing Democrats. He did not care if they were George McGovern or George Wallace Democrats. a “D” was good enough.
I don’t care if somebody is to the right of the late Jesse Helms, or barely right of center like Susan Collins. If you have an “R” next to your name, I support you. We are a family.
California will not elect an Idaho Republican. Massachusetts and New York have had GOP governors, but they were not Alabama or Mississippi Republicans.
This is not to say that we throw out conservative principles. We just make sure t spend more time focusing on what unites us, such as low taxes and dead terrorists, and stop fighting over red meat social issues that split us apart. This angers many social conservatives, but anybody that thinks that a moderate Republican i the same as a liberal Democrat needs to have their head examined.
So what does all of this mean for the special election in New York? Is this rise of Hoffman good or bad?
Ask me on Wednesday. If he wins, it is fine. If he loses, it is a disaster.
That is it. There are no moral victories.
In this specific situation, I am ok with the developments for two reasons.
First of all, after Scozzi Fozzie (I can’t help it, it’s fun.) dropped out and then endorsed the Democrats. This was an act of spitefulness not seen since Betsy McCaughey Ross was fired as the Republican Lieutenant Governor and then became a Democrat.
I will stand up for moderate and liberal Republicans, but ocne they leave the party, like Arlen Specter, I am done with them. That is betrayal.
Yet the second reason I am ok with Hoffman is because he did something that Ron Paul never did. Hoffman showed allegiance to the GOP even while running on the Conservative Party ticket. He stated that if he is elected, he will run for reelection as a Republican. He is willing to join the party. That is good enough for me.
There is a difference between being somebody who works from within and someone who is just an attention seeking gadfly.
Ross Perot broke up the Reagan coalition and elected Bill Clinton. Before Perot, Pat Buchanan tore apart the GOP. Clinton signed many bills that bothered me. I vocalized my opinions. Yet I also told those that voted Libertarian to shut up and stop complaining because they elected him by not supporting President George HW Bush.
The issue is viability. Doug Hoffman has proven his viability. Winning would truly help his credibility.
The same cannot be said of the Governor’s race in New Jersey. John Corzine is a socialist and a disaster, although those are redundant. In a two party race he would get his clock cleaned. Yet a third party candidate with no chance of winning is hurting Chris Christie.
I disagree with Christie on gun control. Yet again, this is New Jersey. He is the type of Republican that can win. If Corzine wins, it will be because conservatives cut off their elephant noses to spite their puritanical faces. This is nuts.
Leftists blame Ralph Nader for George W. Bush defeating Al Gore. Well conservatives should slap the independent voters silly if that reelects Jon Corzine.
Some people say that it takes a Carter to bring about a Reagan, and that Obama has united conservatives. This is insane. I don’t need to elect a liberal to know they will be dreadful. Football teams claim that they learn from losing. This argument is garbage. The goal is to try and win everything.
I do not know enough about any of the candidates in the 23rd New York special election to offer much more. What I do know is that a Hoffman win may cause conservatives to cannibalize Republicans around the country. If that happens, we will become an ideologically pure minority.
Yes, Ronald Reagan was a conservative, but he treated every Republican as a member of the family.
I will root for Doug Hoffman to win on Tuesday, but I want the “conservatives” to help fix the Republican Party, not destroy it.
I am a principled conservative Republican. I am ideologically conservative, and the only viable place to pass a conservative agenda is to go through the Republican Party.
Right of center individuals can either fall off a cliff or fall into line.
eric
November 2nd, 2009 at 12:30 pm
What matters are the numbers, or so some think, but is that really true?
I’d much rather have many “Blue dog” Democrats than none at all.
I’d much rather have moderate Republicans than none at all.
Red states vs blue states..really immaterial. It’s how they think
guys..that is the legislators.
For example, if a Republican said Iran should bomb Tel Aviv, I would vote
for any Democrat. I’m a loyal American and Independent, but not to the extent that I would favor that policy.
I recall at work several years ago, when a co-worker, (he had fought
in Vietnam as some sort of Ranger), said we should send the marines
into Haifa, Tel Aviv, etc., AND bomb the country (we were actually discussing Cuba at the time). He floored me to be honest.
I liked Giuliani, Thompson over Ron Paul, but I did finally vote for
McCain.
I am a registered Democrat…voted for Hillary in the California campaign.
then McCain.
I like Joe Biden, a Democrat..but splitting Iraq into 3 parts, and now his
wishy washy attitude about Afghanistan ( counterterrorism polic), well I don’t know?
He is very pro-Israel..more so than Obama, our do-nothing President,
with a great smile, and not much more.
Hey folks, I did discuss a theory of mine..and like everyone to think about it.
I asked, “Who won the 2008 election in reality”? Their mouths opening
I then added, “It was McCain, w/o the lost sleep”.
What I meant was this..on SNL last weekend, was a skit about Obama.
The guy who does these skits is really very good (sometimes the “Roc”
becomes the Hulk version of Obama..but not this time. ( Only when
the first imposter gets angry, get it?).
Both are really funny…but say alot about Obama.
Anyway, he listed about 10 policies Obama campained on, from cap and trade, to health, to Iraq to labor voting.
After each policy mentioned, a check mark appeared in “Not done”.
Soooo, I asked the other day, “What has he accomplished in 9 months”?
Of course the answer has to be, “NOTHING”, with capital letters.
Nothing, nothing, zilch, -0-, zero, minus -0-. failing.
Obama has majorites in the Congress..yet, thanks to the Blue Dogs
and Joe Lieberman ( I-thank G-d for Independents sometimes), AND
the Republicans..his leftwing socialistic plan for America has gone no where.
Thus, who won, John McCain..w/o the need for aspirin.
Sarah is doing just fine..writing a book..waiting for her opening.
Gosh would it be great if she beats our our liberal US Senator.
Now that would be an accomplishment.
Okay, I give in, TARP was passed. But it was during the Bush
adminstration, when everything was about to fall over a cliff, the credit
markets closing and stock market tumbling. However, even that program
has had it’s failings..much of it still hasn’t been spent., waiting for
the filing (tax) season January 1, 2010 for 2009.
The economy, thanks to American industriousness is improving, albeit
slowly..the market has regained 50% of it’s bottom.
I would not want to credit Obama for any improvement however.
Lets be careful there.
Did McCain win, you bet. BTW, according to polls, 39m Americans
have moved to the right since Nov 2009. Im sure many of these
people are really Independents.
Thank G-d for the Independents. Thank G-d for the Jews. Thank the
Jews for G-d is heard sometimes. But their preference for being liberal..
for voting Democratic..well, maybe G-d hasn’t gotten to their senses yet?
Think about it.
November 2nd, 2009 at 2:28 pm
The war on the news will be televised just not on any channel anyone is watching
Selling the Drama, Who’s Competing For Your Attention? Cable News War.
I added a link to Rob Bartlett’s Blog he put up everyone’s top 5 favorite books.
I can come up with 2 so far
http://youhavetobethistalltogoonthisride.blogspot.com/2009/11/selling-drama-who-is-competing-for-your.html
November 2nd, 2009 at 2:39 pm
NY-23 is not a “conservative” district. I don’t know where that idea came from. It’s a moderate district. Hoffman could still win, though, because the GOP is pumping a ton of money into that race. The trouble is, as our good host reminds us, a Hoffman win could be a big loss for the GOP. The GOP is becoming more and more of an “ideological minority” as Eric pointed out. A Hoffman win will only embolden the forces that are making that so. Conservatives had better be careful what they wish for. I hope he wins. Let the GOP become a minority forever for all I care. They had their shot. They blew it. Good riddance.
JMJ
November 2nd, 2009 at 3:59 pm
If anything good comes from these 3 elections it will be the clear message we are sending to Newt, Steele etc who supported Scuzzo the Rhino that were tired of loyalty to party in the face of policies that dont reflect our principles.
The momentum and message that comes from these three races (that we’ll more than likely win) cannot be wasted and should be used to drive a clear impression of what conservatives, republicans and the population in general want.
Both parties are having problems with everyone leaning a bit too far left using the ole dem strategy of using tax payer dollars to gain votes.
By all accounts the country is already beginning to see and believe that its going take good ole conservative polices to stop whats going on and reverse the damage.
These three elections are a clear message to the dems and Obama that the people dont want anymore of what is undoubtedly getting way out of hand.
The times are a changin.
It only took 9 months for the country to see what a collosal failure we are looking at if we let the status quo go forward.
These elections should give the GOP some insight as to how to start grooming our lead candidates for our victories in 2010 and 2012
November 2nd, 2009 at 4:11 pm
“The GOP is becoming more and more of an “ideological minority”
It more than likely wont matter what you call it because the people have started to make clear that they still want lesser government, lesser taxes and accountable spending.
Yeah, even if it were true that the majority of the country wanted nationalized healthcare. The people still wouldnt trust the government to run it. Go ahead, make my day, pass the bill. It’ll be the single largest screw up this country has ever seen (besides the last 10 months, election included) and will leave a brand on the forehead of the dems for decades to come much as the new deal did in what complete failures they are in fiscal policies. Pass it please, I beg you, get the pain and intrigue over with so everyone can wake up that much sooner.
This administration cant even generate the vaccines we need, they’re 70% behind after almost 8 months of warnings and deaths, and theres actually idiots out there who expect them to run our healthcare ?
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:04 pm
The administration gereates vaccines?
Puh-lease.
Look, everyone wants less taxes - for themselves. Everyone wants less spending - for the programs they don’t like. Everyone wants more accountability - for everyone else. These broad simplistic subjective ideals are meaningless and useless.
JMJ
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:05 pm
I have to say that if lived in NY-23 and had a vote I’d probably vote for Scozzafava in protest in the way that she was thrown under the bus. She endorsed Owens out of selfish motives, and she should have stayed in the contest if that’s the way she felt, but at least she showed some spine and self-respect. Indeed, Hoffman’s brusque reaction to her withdrawal - deserved to backfire - even Palin had the class to be somewhat magnanimous in victory (I never thought I’d write those words).
Anyway, I believe that this “GOP civil war” will continue and that there is the strong possibility that 2012 might see a third party challenge – though from the centre rather than the right. Indeed, I could even imagine a principled conservative like Lindsay Graham leaving the GOP to form a Lieberman/Graham ticket (or Giuliani/Graham). I think Lieberman could be Churchill to Obama’s Chamberlain (though just as Churchill was wrong on India, Liebrman is wrong on health-care. As I have said before, the only two people who could thwart Obama’s foreign policy agenda are Joe Lieberman and (sadly) Hillary Clinton.
November 2nd, 2009 at 8:16 pm
God, the only thing more annoying than Hitler references is Churchill/Chamberlain references. Why the hell would you compare Lieberman to Churchill and Obama to Chamberlain??? Are you sane man???
JMJ
November 2nd, 2009 at 8:58 pm
“The administration gereates vaccines?
Puh-lease.
Of course it does.
Ask Kathleen Sebelius who advises manufacturers what the requirements are.
Are your stupid semantics meant to imply that I’m saying they make the vaccine in White House premises ?
Whatever Jersey.
The fact is that getting vaccine to the public falls on Obamas administration.
They failed to meet the quantities and deadlines they set.
If they cant do that then they sure as hell cant run healthcare.
Baltimore Sun;
“Obama adviser David Axelrod says the manufacturers of the vaccine were wrong when they advised the administration earlier this year that they would have 40 million doses ready near the end of October. Instead, only 28 million doses of vaccine were available.”
“About 9 million doses trickled onto the market in the past week alone, and Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said Wednesday that site visits and other checks suggest production problems “have in large part been fixed.”
“We are checking and double-checking,” she said, acknowledging how the limited supply makes it difficult for people to get vaccinated.
For about six weeks, the government repeatedly said there would be about 45 million doses of swine flu vaccine ready by mid-October, down from an initial early summer prediction of 120 million doses. Only around Columbus Day did officials get word from vaccine manufacturers that delays were worse than the companies had acknowledged — and long lines for scarce supplies persist around the country.
The lesson from sharing what Sebelius called the earlier “pretty rosy scenarios”: Be cautious about setting overly high expectations for the coming weeks. So while officials hope to be back on track in November, Sebelius offered no specific dose predictions Wednesday.”
Losers.
November 2nd, 2009 at 9:09 pm
“Look, everyone wants less taxes - for themselves. Everyone wants less spending - for the programs they don’t like. Everyone wants more accountability - for everyone else. These broad simplistic subjective ideals are meaningless and useless.”
Hardly useless in the face of a president whos policies espouse the exact opposite and for a country who has seen the demise of such values in the last 9 months like never before.
These broad simplistic ideals are exactly what our government should be founded on you buffoon.
Not everyone wants less taxes.
many of you moonbats are just fine with marxist type wealth redistribution.
Not everyone wants smaller government.
You guys voted for Obama on the premise and his promises that government would fix everything. GDP growth and employment growth was only in the government sector, liberals arent complaining. You guys love big government.
Not everyone thinks they need to be held accountable, especially Obama whos constructed the most radical and secretive closed door partisan admin ever and has broken almost every campaign promise.
“These broad simplistic subjective ideals are meaningless and useless.”
That comment was useless and about as lame an attempt as I’ve ever seen at getting away from an incredibly valid point
November 2nd, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Look fellow posters on this website..let’s not call each other names,
I am pleading with you all.
Most of us here are Republicans..many Conservative. I am a moderate.
Let’s express ourselves w/o using profanity or rude remarks. Let’s stick
to the issues.
One poster says that some people like the idea of a heavy tax burden.
I suppose that is true, if you are not so burdened.
I read an interesting page in Glenn Beck’s popular book, and rediscovered
something I already knew..a small percentage of US citizens pay most
of the taxes, especially Federal. I also knew that a few thousand families
in Calfornia pay the bulk of the State taxes.
There is an argument about the regressive nature of payroll taxes, everyone required to pay the same percentage of their earnings.
This supposedly is unfair to those whose incomes are small.
Of course these people always fail to mention the credits that the IRS offers working people..it’s called the earned income credit.
New York is really 3 states..upstate, the suburbs and New York City, where
most of the big minorty groups live..Puerto Ricans, blacks, and of course
Jews. These people vote Democratic..but upstaters are not so inclined.
Anyone familiar with upstate New York knows that it has been in a depression for decades..long before the subprime mortgage debacle.
Entire communities (and I have visited some), have no downtown area worth speaking about.
The major industries, steel, lumber, tourism..have been decimated.
Garment manufacturers have relocated to right to work states..then to
Mexico, then to China.
The only viable industry upstate are prisons…lots of civil servants paid
a more than decent living. Many of those incarcerated are the blacks
and Puerto Ricans caught up in raids in New York City.
Don’t we all remember the lines..”way down on the Erie Canal”.
Well, the Erie Canal is now weeds, black snakes, and toads..get the
point.
The suburbs are mixed..Democrats and Republicans. Of course while
the City is Demoratic..one borough, Staten Island, blue collar and Catholic
is Republican and Conservative.
I mean there are still place which won’t allow Jews and other minorities in the metropolitan area. (Try buying a cabana out in Atlantic Beach or
the Hamptons).
I hope and pray that people in New York and New Jersey
send Obama and the Democratic liberals a message. we are tired
of the do-nothing President and his campaigning. We want concrete
results..
Hey guys how about the recent bankruptcy? This bank funds small
businesses like Dunkin Donuts.
Ive seen their ads on local (Los Angeles) TV lately. Gosh, I want a “twinke”, so maybe the bank will survive chapter 11 and not
go out of existence. ( In sure the liberals are not worried about
all the stockholders who have lost everything).
It’s really whose ox is being gored folks. Or as Marie said, “Let them eat cake”.
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:02 pm
“Look, everyone wants less taxes - for themselves. Everyone wants less spending - for the programs they don’t like. Everyone wants more accountability - for everyone else. These broad simplistic subjective ideals are meaningless and useless.”
Dan.
In the face of an idiotic remark like that one its a wonder I kept my act as clean as i did.
Its a generalized but incomplete and disengenuous statement as many people from Jerseys political ideology do in fact believe that additional taxation and massive government is the way to go because that gets them off the hook when it comes to pulling their weight and accepting the responsibilities that come with individualism.
And they most certainly have a much different concept of what is “accountabilty’.
To say my statement was meaningless and useless leaves me little choice but try and help that person in defining himself.
It was a cheap childish backasswards attempt to demean an otherwise valid point only because he knew he couldnt argue with the basic principles I mentioned