If you do not agree with my collage addition please inform me so that I can delete it.

Thanks, Norm

Ref:”…but because they weren’t born into the societal norm we have all created and legitimate everyday…”

“legitimize” (because a former classmate said, “Because it sounds better.” LOL)

JMJ

Think about what you just said.
Thats the dems intention and why it wont work.

“It’s true of all freedoms and liberties. Think about it.”

You were being incredibly petty.

Yes jersey, I get the simple principle that no one or thing can ever be “ABSOLUTELY” free.
You’re a genius

“When we start failing at that, and we are, then America itself is failing.”

Nice to see you admit the failures of this administration for once

“And Jersey and all the liberals are going to level the playing field for everyone, according to them who deserves it most.”

What the heck is that supposed to mean? How do we level the p[laying field for all while at the same time leveling it more for some people whom we believe deserve somthing more? That makes no sense. The wierd second half of that statement aside, what’s wrong with leveling the playing field? Do you want a unlevel playing field? What the heck do you want?

I actually empathized with Eric’s point about Herbert’s whining. I didn’t see race in that issue. On the contrary, I specifically said that Herbert missed the entire point, as did our good host, though both for obviously different reasons. I even asserted that Herbert is rather nototirous for race-baiting, hopefully implying that I really don’t care for that sort of rhetoric. Lord knows there’s enough real problems with race in America without the superfluous demagoguery. But to simply negate the real issues of race and such is just plain ol’ intentional ignorance.

Now, of course, you can never truly level the playing field for all, no more than markets could ever truly be free, or opportunities could ever be constant and universal, or everyone could be made to be truly productive, whatever that means. I would never espouse such a system and no liberal worth their salt would either (and just like conservatives, there’re plenty of liberals not worth their salt). But we should, of course, strive to make the field as level as possible. the way things are now, those “socialist” Europeans have a greater rate of generational advancement (climbing the social ladder) than we Americans! Obviously we’re doing something wrong. The point of America is that each generation does better than the last. When we start failing at that, and we are, then America itself is failing.

“The markets are constrained by their need to stay free? So they can never be totally free?”

Would anyone care to explain to Micky what I meant? Think about it, Micky. it’s not just true for markets, either, Micky. It’s true of all freedoms and liberties. Think about it.

JMJ

Thats easily done by convincing them all that they dont have equal opportunity in America. Such a Jersey just tried to do. Even if its their own fault that they’re failures.

Sure, there are those less exposed to opportunity than others, life is not always fair. But in reading what you wrote its plain to see that you would want to be the ultimate affirmative action man ever.
If everything is so out of control then take your butt to another country and see how equal your opportunities are.

To use such poor examples as you did to define opportunity such as this

” First take the notion that everyone has the same opportunities in life. Right off the bat, the day you’re born, this ideal is disproven. To whom you are born is just plain a matter of pure luck. You do not choose your parents.”

Is just plain childish and taking things out of context like a little kid.
We are all equally entitle the the provisions of our laws, an education, to be kept safe from enemies and to pursue success under the same rules as everyone else.
Whats the next stupid example ? That because my hair is brown I cant star in Legally Blonde ?

Oh, here it is.
“In real life, as with race, Markets are complex forces that can never truly be free for the very cause of keeping them as free as possible in the first place. Again, to any intelligent person, this should be blatantly obvious.”

The markets are constrained by their need to stay free ? So they can never be totally free ?

You missed it big time buddy

they didn’t call you that. The only insult I saw in your expurgated quotation was the snarky “captain obvious.” Not much by way of insults. What they said was: “To think that race is a superficial and purely exterior quality is an uneducated, unscholarly, and uninformed translation of what race really means.” And they’re absolutely right. Your belief that race is simply skin pigmentation and is without consequence beyond that is just plain silly - and rather ironic, coming from a man who takes his own Jewish identity so seriously, conscientiously and sensitively.

To many people, Jews are a race. In reality they are a mix of semites, caucasions, and other races. But in the real world, many people see Jews as a race, and that race they see as having certain natural dispositions, ie: “Jews are smarter and funnier than most people,” “Jews are cheap,” “Jews have big noses,” “Jewish women are predisposed to guilting people,” etc. None of these generalizations are true, of course, but people still believe them. So race, even when it’s not really race, plays a far more important role in society than just skin pigmentation. And in the world’s most heterogenous society, America, race plays very deep and complicated roles.

And to say that the only negative stereotyopes that minorities must overcome are “ones inside their heads” is gallingly stupid. One must live in a cave to believe such a thing. But since we all know that our good host is niether stupid nor resuides in a cave, why would he say such a thing? One simple reason: cognitive dissonance. The reality that race plays such a major role in society doesn’t jive with your political ideology. Conservatives, espeically of the Wall Street variety, have to believe that everyone has the same opportunities in life, that the Free Markets are truly free - for all, and that everyone gets what the deserve. All tree of these beliefs are obviously false to anyone who’s ever spent so much as a day on this Earth.

First take the notion that everyone has the same opportunities in life. Right off the bat, the day you’re born, this ideal is disproven. To whom you are born is just plain a matter of pure luck. You do not choose your parents. If your parents are smart, educated, erudite, and open-minded, then your chances in life are far better than if your parents are stupid, ignorant, backwards, and close-minded. So right from the very get-go in life it should be plain for all to see that NOT everyone has the same opportunities in life. Even the word “opportunity” implies luck. When we see an “opportunity” we say “How opportune!” - re: “How lucky!” Again, from the very word and from the very day we’re born any intelligent person can not deny that we OBVIOUSLY do NOT have all the same opportunities in life.

I could give countless other examples of life’s variables that are beyond our control. From accidents, to crimes, to force majeure, life is full of the unexpected and change. Only if we lived in static universe (and if you’re unlucky enough to be born to religious fundamentalist parents, you may well believe we do) would it be true that everyone has the same opportunities in life. But we live in a changing universe, and so obviously we do not.

Now, take the notion that the Free Markets are truly free. For starters, they can’t be. Free Market is an oxymoron. There’s no such a thing. Some entity must exert force over markets to keep them as “free” as possible, right off the bat. For instance, what good is a contract if it is unenforcible by law? Right there the concept of truly “Free” Markets is dissolved. And in a heterogenous society like ours, there must be other guarentees as well. For instance, in order to keep markets truly as free as possible we muct have laws that impose equality and punish prejudicial actions, otherwise the markets would only be free for those who choose to make it so. We’re it not for equal opportunity laws, for example, we’d still be living in a segregated society where opportunity and free markets would be limited only to those with preexisting power and wealth. The conservative’s ideal of a Free Market is a simplistic and unrealistic concept. In real life, as with race, Markets are complex forces that can never truly be free for the very cause of keeping them as free as possible in the first place. Again, to any intelligent person, this should be blatantly obvious.

Now, finally, take the Objectivist notion that every gets what the deserve. this is the most farsical of all conservative beliefs. But conservatives MUST believe this because it is the very glue that holds their worldview together. When a conservative, for instance, refers to “productive” or “successful” people, they invariably mean “wealthy” people. Even our good host, just the other day, lamented that not enough Jewish people are becoming stock brokers and such anymore, and conferred that they too many of them were wasting their lives as “teachers” and such. It was rather obnoxious. Is the fireman not “productive?” Is the teacher not “successful?” Who is a conservative to determine productivity or success in the first place? It is a truly obnoxious presumption. For to each person is measured their own success and productivity in life. Wealthy people, in general, are no more productive or successful than anyone else. They’re simply wealthy. In all likelyhood, they were born that way. And countless studies have proven that the wealthy are particularly risk-averse, as can be proven by the greatest engine of job creation in America - the small business. The vast majority of small businesses, about 95%, provide only a middle-class level of personal profit. That’s why the notion that estate taxes hurt family businesses and farms is a myth, a lie. No farm has ever been closed because of estate taxes. Ever. And the vast majority, over 95%, of small business are too small to be affected by such a tax. For the few businesses that are affected, this can easily be averted with proper estate management.

The wealthy are NOT by definition “successful” or “productive.” They are simply wealthy. To believe otherwise requires one to idolize wealth above all other things - God, family, country. And that is just plain evil.

JMJ

I have met many people who just simply won’t have anything to do
with a black, no matter the race of the Presiden ( he is a mulatto folks-a mixed race).

There is an interesting picture in today’s LA Times, showing a group of current LA Laker basketball players mingling with former players.

Funny how all the people are black..from Koby to Magic, to Derek, etc.

Could we construe this photo as racist, there not being one white player?
I mean, one of the team members is a Jew, part black and part white.
Hmmmmmmmm how is he classified?

I asked a friend a question..if Obama’s grandmother were a Jew,
what would he be considered? I didn’t get an answer.

Would Jessie Jackson who called New York City, “Hamie town” have
approved a Jewish black?

But you know, if Obama were part Jewish, he could really educate the country on the manyh Jewish holidays, and we have enough for
every religion. Just think, at Sabbath services, he, Rahm, David,
Tim, Paul, Larry, etc., could don their kippurs (hats) and say the blessings.

But what would the Arab anti-Defamation League say? Oh I can hear it now, a Jewish cabal, sort of like the Bush neo-cons.

Maybe there is reverse discrimination in the White House..all those Jews?

On second thought, I don’t want a Jew for President. You know
M. Albright is a Jew, deep down, even though her parents converted
to keep separate from those Holocaust Jews. She claim she didn’t know about her Jewish grandparents? Oh come on little kinder.

Of course Hitler still managed to gas converts, and the children of
mixed marriages. Get it Albright, you would have been a lamp shade.

Does race play an important part in the USA. You bet it does..sometimes
it works for you and sometimes agin you. Just look at the post office
and DMV as examples of something gone terribly wrong.

BTW, the Federal government allowed affirmative action over 2 decades ago. Could have fooled me.