Yeah Jersey, what “definition” would that be. And if thats the case then why does Obama need to worry about a new plan ? Just boost the one the fed already has in place , right ?

“I got mine, so f’ yourself” people. One of the worst species of human characters. They should be ashamed of themselves. If these lowlifes don’t want “government healthcare” then they should give up their Medicare, their VA, their SSDI, their Workman’s Compensation, their Medicaid, their GEICO, ”

Awww bulls*t Jersey. Were talking about thos who own private policies that donr want to lose them. Thats part of whats at stake here.
You yourself said that if anyone didnt take advantage of cash for clunkers they would be a fool. Well everyone that could did take advantage of it, right ? So it stands to reason that everyone would also take advantage of what seems like free health care also, right ?
That would squeeze out private enterprise.
And while you may think ownership of private property is selfish and lowlife, despicable I’ll have you know that ownership of private property is the core element that made this country great and you morons would like to take that away by actually trying to ram your brand of etyhics and morals down our throat and say that because you think its the wrong moral to carry you will legislate out of your own morals and ethics.

What ? Am I despicable because I dont want to share my house or my car with anyone ?
Screw you ! I’ll help you get your own but you cant have mine.
Bla bla bla no one ever said the insurance companies were angels but I’d rather deal with them and my doctor than the democratic party and people like you.
Bottom line is that the proof is overwhelming that people dont want government calling the shots on their health care. They do want the government to help fix it. But the majority sure as hell dont want them to run it.
Last I checked this was a country with a democratic electorate and so it shoulkd be put to a vote and not rammed down our throats by people like you using sob stories and guilt.
Yeah, the majority voted for Obama knowing health care was one of his biggest issues. But even a large portion of them are beginning to realize that under his method its not feasable or sustainable. Not only is it bad for our physical health its bad for the countrys financial health, especially right now. These morons would glady take an entitlement they are not entitled to at the risk of total financial ruin.
Now thats selfish !

And of course as usual your best and final remedy to everything is simply that everyone else is dumber than you are. People who dont see it your way are stupid. Okay Jersey, whatever.

In my opinion, anyone who thinks like that is the epitome of stupidity.
Its a good way to get run over in your whole life running around thinking yours are always the smartest. I learned my lesson a long time ago to never underestimate my opponent. Some like you never enter that equation.

Plus, I win, because you never answered any of my questions yet or even apologized for your false claim that you asked me the one that you actually asked Toma instead.
You really are piece of work.

See ya in a couple of months if you clean up your act

Micky, by definition, if 83,000,000 Americans already receive “government healthcare,” then a large percentage of the very people opposing “government healthcare” are already receiving it! They are phonies. Lowlifes. “I got mine, so f’ yourself” people. One of the worst species of human characters. They should be ashamed of themselves. If these lowlifes don’t want “government healthcare” then they should give up their Medicare, their VA, their SSDI, their Workman’s Compensation, their Medicaid, their GEICO, et al. But this has nothing to do with their coverage, so they don’t care about anyone else. They just want to make money from their investments and interests in private insurance. Some of these lowlifes were even taped at these townhalls with private insurance t-shirts, or AARP (which contracts with Medicare) t-shirts, and such. These people deserve NO attention at all. They should be completely ignored. They are misinforming the public, just as you are misinformed yourself, for pure selfishness, a sin by every standard of morays. These people disgust me. The media, though, which is also beholden to the status quo, makes hay out of these few, loud rabblerousers, and sure enough public opinion begins to turn against the public’s best self-interest. Nothing new to see here.

The only reason we don’t have universal helathcare in America is because Americans are by and large STUPID.

JMJ

‘We also have the best on the planet which goes to show that these morons will settle for crap.
We also have the right to buy what we want on the market as long as its legal. I dont see guys like you packing up and shipping off to Canada.
People come here for what they cant get at home. We dont go anywhere to get what they have.
Do we ?
How many people have you heard say they’re going to Europe or Canada because the health care is better ?
And what about the majority that does want the status quo ?

CNN poll
Obama’s health care plan is favored by fifty-percent of those polled. Forty-five percent have an unfavorable opinion of his plan. Nevertheless, there appears to be more intensity among those who oppose the plan. Thirty-three percent oppose it strongly while only twenty-three percent support it strongly.

People are no more willing to trust the government to make health care decisions than they are insurance companies.
When faced with decisions “such as which patients get certain treatments, when they get treated, and which treatments are ineffective or too expensive,” forty percent of respondents say they would prefer insurance companies make those decisions and forty percent say they would prefer the government to.

The poll was conducted among 1,136 adults with a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points
===========
From CNN Deputy Political Director Paul Steinhauser

“Recent national polling suggests that nearly three out of four Americans support government programs to improve the country’s health care system.”

(Pay attention. It says they want the government to do something about it, not neccessarily run it or offer it.
“the countrys health care system” as in “the one in place” right now there is only one system, thats what they’re talking about)

“Seventy-two percent of those questioned in recent CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey say they favor increasing the federal government’s influence over the country’s health care system in an attempt to lower costs and provide health care coverage to more Americans, with 27 percent opposing such a move. ”

“INFLUENCE OVER THE COUNTRYS HEALTH CARE SYSTEM” !!!!!
(As in ” the present one already in place)

“Other recent polls show six in 10 think the government should provide health insurance or take responsibility for providing health care to all Americans.”

(Yeah, I wonder which polls those are ? Funny they dont mention them.)

“That doesn’t mean that health care reform is a slam dunk,” says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. “Americans tend to support those goals. The question — just as in 1994 — is how they will react to the details of future legislation to address those goals.”

(uh huh, the devil is in the details, the “angry mobs” will tell you what those details are)

“President Bill Clinton and then First Lady Hillary Clinton tried by failed to reform and expand health care coverage during a two year period from 1993 to 1994.”

(YUP)
———————————————————————————
LETS TRY SOME OTHER POLLS, JUST TO BE FAIR
———————————————————————————

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/05/poll-americans-overwhelmingly-favor-universal-health-care—-until-taxes-are-mentioned.php

“Now here’s where it gets really tricky: “Would you prefer a health care reform plan that raises taxes in order to provide health insurance to all Americans, or a plan that does not provide health insurance to all Americans but keeps taxes at current levels?” It is now a 47%-47% tie, thanks to the threat of tax increases.”
———————————————————————————-

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/issues2/articles/americans_give_low_marks_to_u_s_health_care_but_69_rate_their_health_insurance_good_or_excellent

“More than two out of three Americans (68%) rate health care in this country as fair or poor, but a near identical number (69%) give good or excellent marks to their health insurance coverage and are very reluctant to change it.
only 10% of Americans in the latest survey say they are not insured.”

“In addition, 65% of Americans say they want to keep their existing health insurance as opposed to 15% who are willing to switch to some form of government health insurance. ”

“His Democratic opponent, Barack Obama, has called for a national insurance program for individuals and small businesses similar to what federal employees have. ”

OH !!!!!!!!!!!!!
SIMILAR ????????????????? ARENT WE ALL GOING TO HAVE THE SAME KIND OF COVERAGE ??

Dissatisfaction with the U.S. health care system makes the issue a perennial campaign favorite. The fact that voters are generally reluctant to give up their own insurance coverage makes the issue resistant to reform.

Thirty-seven percent (37%) of men give good or excellent ratings to the U.S. health care system, as opposed to 23% of women. Nearly twice as many women (40%) rate it poor, contrasted with 33% of men.

But 70% of women give good or excellent marks to their own health insurance, while only 67% of men agree.

Democrats are dramatically more skeptical of the overall health care system than Republicans: 86% of Democrats rate it fair or poor, as opposed to 50% of Republicans who see it as good or excellent. Sixty-five percent (65%) of unaffiliated voters also give the system low marks.

Still, 64% of Democrats, 75% of Republicans and 67% of unaffiliated voters grade their own health insurance as good or excellent.

“African-Americans, however, are nearly evenly divided in their assessment of their own health insurance programs, with 48% giving them excellent or good marks and 50% rating them fair or poor. Seventy-four percent (74%) of whites, by contrast, rate their own programs food or excellent, with only 26% giving them the lower marks.”

(Gee, I guess i’d be a racist if I said that figures because most blacks are dems)

“Accordingly, blacks are nearly twice as likely as whites to favor switching to an insurance program administered by the government, 27% to 14%. ”

“Dissatisfaction with both the overall health care system and their own health insurance was highest among those in the lowest income bracket, earning less than $20,000 per year.”

( Gee, I wonder why)

“In an April survey just 29% of Americans favored a national health insurance program overseen by the federal government. Nearly half (46%) believed the quality of care would suffer under such a program, and 42% expected the cost of health care to go up. ”

“Sixty-one percent (61%) of voters nationwide say that cost is the biggest health care problem facing the nation today. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 21% believe the lack of universal health insurance coverage is a bigger problem.”

“The new polling also shows that 80% of those with insurance rate their own coverage as good or excellent. That’s up from 70% in May.”
================================================
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Gallup-finds-seniors-most-skeptical-of-Obamacare-52192612.html

“When asked if they believe a new healthcare reform law will improve or worse health care quality in the U.S., 43 percent of respondents 65 years of age or older said it will worsen care, while 34 percent said it will improve it. That compares to 45 percent of those age 50-64 who think it will improve care quality, and only 33 percent who think it will worsen care quality. Note that those two categories essentially cover the Baby Boom generations and their surviving parents.”
“Seniors are the least likely of all age groups in the U.S. to say that healthcare reform will benefit their personal healthcare situation. By a margin of three to one, 36% to 12%, adults 65 and older are more likely to believe healthcare reform will reduce rather than expand their access to healthcare. And by 39% to 20%, they are more likely to say their own medical care will worsen rather than improve.

“Obama Approval Drops Below 50% Among Seniors

Obama’s job approval rating from Americans fell to 52% in July 27-29 Gallup Poll Daily tracking, its lowest reading to date. In the same poll, his rating from seniors is 49%, down from an average 54% throughout June and from 61% at the start of his administration in January.”

(So jersey, you think all those seniors at the meetings were plants who dont know what they’re talking about ?)
———————————————————————————-
Also, is it fair that I pay higher taxes to pay for your insurance while still paying to keep my own ? Can I afford that ? Will it force me to the private plan ? PLUS !!! I HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON MY BENEFITS TO BOOT ??? YOU GUYS ARE FREEKING NUTS !!!

And, for the last time (one more chance)

Why cant we just give insurance to a portion of that 46 million that dont have any, who are legal Americans wanting it and leave everyone else alone and concentrate on fixing the system in place ?

We are now witnessing show trials, similar to the worst of the McCarthy
days, which were used to expose Communists in our govt and military and entertainment worlds..and condemned since. ( Read the account of
a noted Hollywood author who dared to expose Hollywood’s Communists),
author of What Makes Sammy Run.

BTW, the same Ruskies who were the role model for US Communists and fellow travelers, allowed over 2m Jews to be slaughtered..( after the pact between Russia and Germany)., while allowing Poland to be raped.

Of course we know that Germany than turned on it’s ertswhile friend, attacking it soon after the pact. The result was the death of over 25m
Soviets and most of European Jewry (both despised by Hitler and
his gangsters).

But getting back to Iran, why isn’t Obama doing something about this
tragedy? He has sent thousands more to die in Afghanistan…in a war
without any end or positive results.

Obama’s war is on and running and gaining steam. Yet the liberals
who were against Iraq and still opposed to our involvement, are saying and doing nothing. Are we seeing mass protests..letter writing, emails to Obama and Hillary?

What is Hillary doing now? Well, after criticizing our only ally in the M.E.
she is in Africa, telling the South Africans to be role models for the rest of Africa..to reach out more to their neighbors, etc.

She has made statements about Ahmad and the mullahs who control him, but they are meaningless, irrelevant.

Folks, while the liberals condemn right protests locally against Obamas socialism plan for medicine, they say silent while Ahmad in Iran is
skrewing over 50% of his own people, still says the Holocaust was a lie and used to promote Israel’s creation, and has banners saying, “Next year in Jerusalem” affixed to it’s Shihab Missiles.

My friends, what can we do to stop the liberal destruction of our country and their indifference to our enemies?

Well for starters, email Obama and Hillary. Secondly, vote for right thinking
legislators. For heavens sake, get rid of the liberal wing of the Democrats in the next election.

I say, thank God for the blue dog Democrats, the Republicans and
people like Newt, Cantor and the Republican Jewish Coalition.

Unless we stop Iran, and soon, I envision a mushroom cloud over
Washington D.C., which Iran will blame the Jews for doing.
Peanut brain Carter lost Iran, and Obama is avoiding rectifying
this tragedy., Obama, the most leftwing pinko this country has ever had.

So, what else is new?

Hey guys, over 50% of the cash for clunker money will go to
foreign made cars. Get it, foreign made.

And what is Obama doing now, reneging on his promise to avoid
using the govt to set drug prices.

I guess we can now all buy drugs from Canada and Mexico or
go their for treatment.

And what else is new?

JMJ

“” That is the system we have today. Personally, I think anyone who supports that is an idiot.”

I dont support it. It needs reform. But will never support the fed handling my health care. The way they handle everything else.

no thanks

You proved nothing that you claimed.

“You are falling for the talking points handed these phony “protesters” by the insurance industry. ”

These talking points were my own long before these protestors came out.
Even when Hillary was pushing for it about half of what I said was said 10 years ago. As a matter of fact it was the first post I ever wrote 3 years ago on someone elses blog. This topic has been out there for decades Jersey and these arguments are much what they were a long time ago as they are now None of the are all that new except the rebutals to Obama lies.

You keep repeating yourself saying no one is saying you’ll lose this or that but you have no instance or example to back it up while I have an explanation and verifiable facts at least. When the f*** are you ever going to learn that your word is not the last word or gospel ?
Are you telling me I’m supposed to listen to you ?
PULEEEEESE give me a huge fricken break wouldja ?

“Again, we need a system in which EVERYONE who can pay does pay and EVERYONE is ALWAYS covered. Anything less is not only STUPID but just plain SCUMMY.”

Yeah, I can and do pay and am always covered. And if i’m not theres medicade which should only be a temp thing.

“You say I haven’t answered your questions? Well, not a one of you have answered mine:”

Its the first time you asked this one. Thats why I dont debate you anymore cuz you lie.
You never asked me that question, you asked TOMA !!!!

“why is it that government workers get to keep their coverage when they stop paying into it, but regular private sector working folks like me can not?”

Because your wifes loan is more inportant than your life ?
Priorities ?

” All those tens of thousands of dollars I paid and worked for went to the private profits of insurnace companies and now I have no way to retrieve it.”

Its called insurance. I cant retrieve what I put into my car insurance when I get rid of the car. But I had the peace of mind knowing that while I had it I couldnt get my a$$ sued out from under me.
The insurance companies make no illusiuon that you’ll be able to keep any acrued revenues in your account, only that you’ll be covered as long as you pay.
It works both ways for a reason. Some only pay a few months like with health insurance, get sick, and reap way way way more than what they paid. Its not a scam. Thats how it works even with auto or home insurance, and by the way

MOST AMERICANS WANT IT TO STAY THAT WAY !!!!!!

Stop being such a cry baby and expecting to be covered for life because you paid some crappy little payroll tax all your life. That is whats sleezy and greedy. Because as injured as I am, I’m still paying taxes on my property, my income and investments and I’ll be damed if I can do that while you guys sit arouns and demand to be coverd by my dollars as if its your damn right !

Kay, were done, you havent changed, see you around November, we’ll give it another whack if you can be honest

” That is the system we have today. Personally, I think anyone who supports that is an idiot.”

I dont support it.

You are falling for the talking points handed these phony “protesters” by the insurance industry. These are lies. No one is telling people they have to change what they already have. That is a lie. We all pay taxes for Medicare - even 2/3rds of “illegal” aliens - and it is not some trsut fund for the future but rather a direct transfer of wealth. Many of these recipients of Medicare never paid a dime into it, let alone an amount anywhere near the value of what they receive in older age. I paid plenty of Medicare taxes but I can’t receive anything from it because it is not a trust or a fund or an insurance pool, but a welfare program - a direct transfer of wealth from the working to the elderly. It is our debt to them for maintaining the civilization we enjoy. Medicare, in this debate is only relevent in that the very people who are receiving this medical welfare are refusing to extend that welfare to others, and that is scummy at best.

You say I haven’t answered your questions? Well, not a one of you have answered mine: why is it that government workers get to keep their coverage when they stop paying into it, but regular private sector working folks like me can not? All those tens of thousands of dollars I paid and worked for went to the private profits of insurnace companies and now I have no way to retrieve it. That is the system we have today. Personally, I think anyone who supports that is an idiot.

Again, we need a system in which EVERYONE who can pay does pay and EVERYONE is ALWAYS covered. Anything less is not only STUPID but just plain SCUMMY.

JMJ

Pot, meet kettle.

Spare me the emotional context and try rationale, logic and fact for once.
First of all, they didnt just “get theres”
These people have been paying taxes their whole life that went to help lowlifes and misfortunates.all over this country.
And stop lying !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’ve listened to the protests and the majority , almost all, are not protesting what other people might get, but instead what they themselves might get THAT THEY DONT WANT !!!
GOT IT ???

And yeah, so what if they cry about footing someone elses bill ?
I swear, thats all you liberals do man ! Is run around balling your little heads off claiming to be victims od this and that and its my job to set you free. We have the right to not support other peoples laziness or stupidity.
You yourself have said many times you wouldnt do it for a conservative cause !
Hypocrite

And whats your philosophy ?
Give me some of yours whether you like it or not ?
Ownership of our property is the cornerstone of this country but no, that doesnt apply anymore right ? No longer are we allowed to keep whats rightfully ours. You and the messiah get to dictate where our money goes, to whom and for what.
So please, take your sanctimonious faux disgust and go run it past someone wuth an IQ of 10 and they might buy it.

this proposed law does nothing to correct the problems with the current Health Care Industry.
Why is that ? Because they dont plan on it being around much longer, that’s why

Obama can dictate who CEOs the auto co.
He can regulate and have oversight/monitor pay for those execs
They managed to force banking inst. to make mortgages cheaper for certain demographics
Why cant they do the same to the health insurance industry so prices come down ?
Hes willing to assert govt strongarm techniques to other industries, why not the medical insurance industry ?
Because it would take away the opportunities to have more direct control over peoples lives. By placing stipulations to your public policy they can dictate where you live if that hood has an unhealthy environment that could make you sick they suggest/make you move. If you smoke or eat a lot or the wrong things they could hold your policy over you to make you change. Promoting green efforts thru dictating peoples diets. (dont eat meat, go organic etc…)
Why wont politicians be getting the same plan ? Why shouldn’t Obama and his family take it if its so damn great ?
In the past Congress has been able to regulate the Health Care Industry. The passage of Newborns’ and Mothers’Health Protection Act of 1996 (NMHPA), signed by President Bill Clinton was a step in the right direction and was done with bi-partisan cooperation. Congress could do it again and that is what needs to be done.

But of course I’ve already discussed why they wont do it.

And then theres this.
“There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov.”
Those are the words of a dictator, not an American president who is supposedly supposed to answer to the people.

You still havent answered my questions, you either wont because the answers are incriminating or you’ll play your stupid little game by asserting that some bull you ran of is an answer.

“The protesters either have no idea what they’re talking about or they really are just shills for Big Insurance.”

Onced again you show your complete contempt for anyone disagreeing with you but saying things like this. People are either too stupid or being driven by some outside force.
That makes you look really stupid.
Because I’m one of the people in that audience and you have not answered my questions which are of my own making.

See, thats why this will be our last debate for quite a while again. Because instead of winning the debate on the merits of the facts you resort to and boil everything down to people being dumber than you are.
You arrogance and love for what you think is a brain superior to everyone elses is whats dusgusting.
Your inability to let you brain and not your partisan bigotry do your thinking is disgusting.
These people do know what they’re talking about Jersey and you have nothing to prove that anyone is a shill.

You lose, again. Because all you can boil it down to is us making you sick because of our supposed greed and you answered not one question.
Se ya in a month or two

Micky, yes, these Medicare recipients complaining about the possibility of other people getting a public plan, or at least a non-profit co-op (which is what BCBS used to be, by the way, but it was so profitably successful they ended up selling it publically), are acting like lowlifes. It’s the ol’ “I got mine, so f’ you” philsophy and it disgusts me.

Eagle, Things are a LOT more expensive today than they were just 10, 20, 30 years ago. The rate of healthcare inflation has been so ridiculous over the past generation, millions of people have been priced out of care. Yes, there is emergency “charity” care, but that is extremely wasteful, mostly avoidable, and is busting the books at the clinics and hospitals. 49% of ALL foreclosures involve medical costs. 62% of ALL bankruptcies involve medical costs. Medical procedures, drugs, and care are getting so expensive, second mortgages just don’t do it anymore, especially when you add the now ridiculous costs of education. I simply don’t have the equity to both pay my wife’s student loans and get the surgery I need.

The point is simple. The private helath insurance industry is simply a superfluous middleman parasite. Their overhead is roughly ten times the overhead of the public systems and their results are no better at all. We are paying 50%+ more than any comparative developed nation and our outcomes are no better, if worse. The “competitiion” we have now is a myth, with most people stuck with whatever they can get from work and with each state limiting the number the health insurance companies to two or three for 75% of their populations by allowing these companies to run the very systems they’re supposed to be acuating and monitoring. It’s a scam and I can’t believe any matuire, intelligent adult can’t see that. This is why we’re the only developed nation on the planet with such an atiquated and STUPID system. And this gets to Micky’s point as well…

The protesters either have no idea what they’re talking about or they really are just shills for Big Insurance.

JMJ