“Your insult aside, whether you believe in a creator or not, “we simply are” holds true.”

No, then the word “simply” does not apply any more as there is complexity involved when you bring another factor into the picture. That factor being the creator.

” If you do believe in a creator, then you are content that we are because a creator made us so and that’s that.”

Not at all.
The objective is to adhere to the teachings of the diety and his son and to make sure that each generation improves upon these teachings to the point that each generation is a little more enlightened than we were 4000 years ago.
The progression of man in all areas is due to the strive to perfect ones self. And as time goes on and those perfections are handed down compiled against all the other hand me downs from the human race as a consequence comes closer to excellence with each generation.
If we lose that sight we cease to grow morally, ethically, spiritually and intelectually.

” If you do not believe in a creator then “we simply are” begs much further questioning.”

Nope. because even if you figure out how we got here or the process it still does not answer the question as to who or what was behind the creation and what the purpose of/reason for our creation was.

This is why I have a hard time with Armageddon or the end times or the rapture.
Why would God place us here and let us only obtain a fraction of our potential as people and then just yank us away from it all one day.
I think we will be here for quite sometime until weve perfected ourselves to a point where hes happy with what weve become.
We’ll either blow ourselves up or make something even greater out of what we see and what we are before any judgement is made.
We will of succeeded in identifying the exact differences between good and evil. Once evil is identified in its exactness we can rid ourselves of it without eliminating any part of good by accident.

Everything around us just fits too well, makes too much sense and worked out so perfectly that its almost impossible to imagine there not being something intelligent behind it.

I did not choose to believe “first” because I was told so about anything as most people are indoctrinated into believing out of fear.
They are raised and told that if you dont believe you’ll go to hell.

I chose to believe on my own out of sheer amazement and wonder.
Which is why I say that if you are wrong the price you’ll pay will be bad.
If I am wrong and you are right the worst that will happen to me is what you say.
That which would happen according to you, would be nothing.

This is why its being debunked day after day. Most recently since its been discovered that the models the OPCC and the UN have been using are bull. The computers its been discovered do not ahve sufficient data to predict what we’ve all been hearing.
What data there is has been “SUBJECTED” to opions and agendas.
There is no predictive value in the current generation of computer GCMs and therefore the alarmist IPCC statements about human-caused global warming are a bunch of crap

“Another interesting point. And while we’re at it, let’s not cross those lines, lest we become yet another failed empire.”

Germany, Japan and radical Islam crossed the line.
The first two failed as we defeated them and so will radical islam. It may be tougher because thet are no geographical constraints, but hey, we’ve always found a way.

“Science is only “in action” when someone uses the scientific method to study something. Evolution is not a product of science. It is a scientific theory. ”

When it rains on a hot street and you see steam you have science in action without mans production, study or action.
The science of reaction to action is in play.

Bottom line is this.
You can play all the pedantic semantic word games that you want.
But, if you’re wrong, you’re going to be in a lot more trouble than if I’m wrong.

““As for Good and Evil, they are just more subjective measurements.”

Like Gerbil warming.”

No. Global Warming is a theory based on objective measurements. Good and Evil are subjective measurements made by people, based upon their morality, to judge the behavior of other people. The morays from which these judgements are based are set by other people, usually a long time ago, based upon a combination of their whims, social standards, and the interests of power.

“Science can be “IN” action also.
Evolutionary progress is a result of science being applied whether it be intentional or accidental”

No. Science is simply the study of things. It is not a thing unto itself. Science is only “in action” when someone uses the scientific method to study something. Evolution is not a product of science. It is a scientific theory.

““We simply are.”

Once again. This is the lazy mind that wants to enter no challenging thought.
Accidents are occurances. Unintended.”

Your insult aside, whether you believe in a creator or not, “we simply are” holds true. If you do believe in a creator, then you are content that we are because a creator made us so and that’s that. If you do not believe in a creator then “we simply are” begs much further questioning.
That questioning interests me and I do question. I am in awe of the fact that there are so many questions yet to be answered. If you believe in a creator, then the questions are already answered and you would be content without want to know more.

“If youy say “there is no purpose” then you have defeated any reason for our existance no matter what your beliefs.”

Again, “we simply are,” to a nonbeliever such as myself, begs much further inquiry of the universe and how we came to be in it. The “reason” or “purpose” for our existence becomes a question yet to be answered, and finding that answer becomes the great drive for greater scientific progress.

“As far as the comic book thing goes. Lets out it this way.
I actually tire of movies where the good guy always wins.
In real life sometimes the bad guy wins.
We as a society dont want to see this, liberals make most of these movies and are the ones under the belief that we can all just get along one day.”

Interesting point. But hey, most movies are made to be escapes from reality. We want the good guys to win because in real life so often they do not.

“Let people draw the lines in the sand and we’ll all do much better.”

Another interesting point. And while we’re at it, let’s not cross those lines, lest we become yet another failed empire.

Eagle,

You certainly don’t have to be a liberal to be atheistic, antitheistic, or agnostic. Just go visit the folks over at Reason. There are lots of conservative and libertarian (tons of libertarian) non-believers. And I don’t think you are stupid at all. You, like everyone else, are simply a product of your evolution and environment. You may be a genius for all I know. You are who you are. I simply disagree with you about some things and think that people who think like you sometimes hold back some of the social, scientific and intellectual progress we humans so desparately need.

JMJ

Subjective only out of convenience.
Having a moral authorty takes away the subjectivness and defines it so that there is a standard.
But of course once you do not commit to that authority there is all the reason in the world for one to be able to justify any act as one mans evil is another mans good.

Having this you get to make up the rules as you go along and justify what is usually not good for those around you, but pleases you.

“whos to say “?

Thats the motto of the left.

Abortion, underage sex, promiscuity, lack of commitment to a standard.

The bottom line is this.
If you’re not willing to believe that theres more than we can explain and believe that everything works just a little too well, and makes too much sense, you’re just a lazy mind or fearful of what you might find.

As far as the comic book thing goes. Lets out it this way.
I actually tire of movies where the good guy always wins.
In real life sometimes the bad guy wins.
We as a society dont want to see this, liberals make most of these movies and are the ones under the belief that we can all just get along one day.

Well guess what ? As much as the bad guy wins sometimes , so does the good guy. But we are under the false belief that its always done by virtue of some set of morals that dictate we must be of some purity the bad guy does not posses. Well, we can kill and be bloody but its the reasons that make it matter. And the definition of good and evil that comes from that moral authority is what defines if the purpose is worthy.

Liberals keep thinking they are the matchmakers of the world and in the end just keep trying to mix oil with water.
Now, who lives in a comic book universe where the impression is forever kumbaya ?
Let people draw the lines in the sand and we’ll all do much better.
There are ethics,there are morals, there are borders, there is right and wrong, evil and good.
And when we fail to make them a reality and justify or excuse them by saying they are subjective we are a race destined for failure.

Like Gerbil warming.

Science can be “IN” action also.
Evolutionary progress is a result of science being applied whether it be intentional or accidental.

“We simply are.”

Once again. This is the lazy mind that wants to enter no challenging thought.
Accidents are occurances. Unintended.

” am in awe of things just the way they are.”

Thats easy to do when you “simply are”

I am in awe of much more than you could relate to since you choose to demean and simplify the existance and purpose of man.
If youy say “there is no purpose” then you have defeated any reason for our existance no matter what your beliefs.

“Micro” and “Macro” are just subjective measurements. They are not real, tangible things. To an ant you are huge, to a whale you are tiny. There is no such things in scientific jargon as “micro” or “macro” evolution. They are irrelevent terms. “Evolution” is just another word for “change over time,” nothing less, nothing more. It is not micro or macro, jsut change over time. All things that move, by definition, change. They change position relative to everything around them and sometimes they alter or are altered by their movement or the movement of other things around them. This happens on every scale, regardless of what you subjectively coin “micro” or “macro.” This whole “micro/macro” thing is an invention of the ID movement and has no scientific merit.

Another ID invention without scientific merit is the false assumption that somehow evolution confers the “changing of one species into another.” Evolution confers no such thing. Species do not change into other species. What can happen, however, is that individuals can mutate, pass their mutations along, and eventually, gradually over generations, a new species emerges. “Species” is just a term for a group of individuals who are genetically similar to a certain extent, as with genus, phylum, etc. A species does not evolve in and of itself. A species may die out, a new species may emerge, but species do not en masse become other species. The odds of that happening would be phenomenal.

Another false assumption the IDers make is that somehow there is no evidence of “links” - of intermediary types. But that is not true. The evidence is found in the Earth in the form of fossils, and all amongst us in the form of other types that have varying degrees of similarities. Given that the evolution of types stems from individuals there is an overlap of intermediary species. So we can plainly see, in the case of man, that our closet relatives are the great apes (chimps, bonobos), down to Lemurs and such, down to lesser mammals and so forth. It’s not that we are directly descended from these specific species, but rather we are all descedents of ceratin common individuals on down the family tree.

As for Good and Evil, they are just more subjective measurements. What to one person is good to another may be evil. We are all animals on a big spinning rock in space. We are all products of our environment, our evolution. We are motivated by our interests and the interests of those with whom we connect. The basic laws of physics apply to everyone and everything. There is a reason for everything that happens, from what we think and do, to why we think and do it.

If you need to believe there’s a designer for all this, then fine. Whatever floats your boat. It is a useless assumption. It doesn’t matter. You can’t base anything on it. You can’t assume anything from it. It just makes you feel important, like you’re more than just another little thing in the great big universe. But when you use this pointless assumption to stand in the way of progress, then you’re nothing more than just another loony religious nut making the world a worse place for all of us. A slightly more progressive Taliban.

Micky, yeah, yeah, I like comic books too, and yes the stories and characters are often more filled-out then I described. But they’re still fictional representations for the consumption of adolescents and children. They are not real life.

“The bottom line is that of you choose to believe that we are all just accidents of science”

And here guys is another fallacy in your logic - there is no such a thing as an “accident of science.” Science is just the study of things. The only accidents are made by scientists when they do something wrong, or trip over a bunsen burner, etc. We are not “accidents of science.” We simply are. We exist. It was not an “accident,” just an occurance.

As for your little attack, it is not I who needs to feel superior or more important in the universe. I am in awe of things just the way they are.

JMJ

Also whether you want to argue evolution or creation theres still the argument that evolution os a process created by God. Which I firmly believe.
I and not too many people out there take the bible in such literal context that they actually believe the earth is only 4000 years old.
Gimme a break.
Nor do we believe that it literally took only 6 days to make the earth when science makes it undoubtedly clear thru carbon dating that it infact took much longer.

The bottom line is that of you choose to believe that we are all just accidents of science I suspect that its just a lazy mind that goes there because its easier to swallow, requires less reasoning and complex thought, and terribly convenient when you have no moral authority to answer to and you may as well just make up all your reality as you go along.

You have also made your own reality by convincing yourself with no proof that there is no higher power.
So, with that in mind, you can get down of your high horse of superior intellect because when it comes right down to it, thru your own admission, you’re not much different, smarter, or better than anyone else.