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	<title>Comments on: Ideological Bigotry Part XV&#8211;Hatred&#8217;s Finale From Amy Klein</title>
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	<link>http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2008/07/ideological-bigotry-part-xv-hatreds-finale-from-amy-klein/</link>
	<description>Drinking the love from her Holy Grail</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 06:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Micky 2</title>
		<link>http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2008/07/ideological-bigotry-part-xv-hatreds-finale-from-amy-klein/#comment-8642</link>
		<dc:creator>Micky 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/?p=611#comment-8642</guid>
		<description>"First Worlders simply don’t need it anymore."

No its about an example of how environmentalism killed millions in the "past".
True, we have other products toaday. But that is not the point
The point is that in the face of death for millions of people the environmentalist took the side of fish and a few birds.

Once again Mr. McJones.
I present verifyable fact and documentation when all you spout is opinion.
You basically have no case.

Psuedo issues ?

Like global warming where the science is still debatable but the left hammers it down our throats everyday as truth ? And you say that the death of millions is a psuedo issue ?
Also, I would like to see a report of fish dying because of the lack of baby mosquitos.
Objectivist ? Nice try but all that word does is describe every human on earth.
Also, sopher never claimed that DDT would completely wipe out malaria.
What he was saying, and the point that you miss again, is that millions could of been saved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;First Worlders simply don’t need it anymore.&#8221;</p>
<p>No its about an example of how environmentalism killed millions in the &#8220;past&#8221;.<br />
True, we have other products toaday. But that is not the point<br />
The point is that in the face of death for millions of people the environmentalist took the side of fish and a few birds.</p>
<p>Once again Mr. McJones.<br />
I present verifyable fact and documentation when all you spout is opinion.<br />
You basically have no case.</p>
<p>Psuedo issues ?</p>
<p>Like global warming where the science is still debatable but the left hammers it down our throats everyday as truth ? And you say that the death of millions is a psuedo issue ?<br />
Also, I would like to see a report of fish dying because of the lack of baby mosquitos.<br />
Objectivist ? Nice try but all that word does is describe every human on earth.<br />
Also, sopher never claimed that DDT would completely wipe out malaria.<br />
What he was saying, and the point that you miss again, is that millions could of been saved.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jersey McJones</title>
		<link>http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2008/07/ideological-bigotry-part-xv-hatreds-finale-from-amy-klein/#comment-8641</link>
		<dc:creator>Jersey McJones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/?p=611#comment-8641</guid>
		<description>Micky, I really don't care what an Objectivist loony (Tracinski) thinks, but even Soper knew that DDT would never completely eradicate malaria, and it didn't.  Continued use would have simply toxified the environment and killed off countless other species LIKE THE FISH THAT THOSE SAME PEOPLE RELY ON FOR SUSTANANCE THAT EAT MOSQUITOES AND THEIR LARVAE.  But many Third World countries continue to use DDT (now produced in India and China), and no one is stopping them, and First Worlders simply don't need it anymore.  So this whole thing is the usual pointless conservative drivel.  You guys have no issues, so you make up silly psuedo-issues like this.

JMJ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Micky, I really don&#8217;t care what an Objectivist loony (Tracinski) thinks, but even Soper knew that DDT would never completely eradicate malaria, and it didn&#8217;t.  Continued use would have simply toxified the environment and killed off countless other species LIKE THE FISH THAT THOSE SAME PEOPLE RELY ON FOR SUSTANANCE THAT EAT MOSQUITOES AND THEIR LARVAE.  But many Third World countries continue to use DDT (now produced in India and China), and no one is stopping them, and First Worlders simply don&#8217;t need it anymore.  So this whole thing is the usual pointless conservative drivel.  You guys have no issues, so you make up silly psuedo-issues like this.</p>
<p>JMJ</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Micky 2</title>
		<link>http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2008/07/ideological-bigotry-part-xv-hatreds-finale-from-amy-klein/#comment-8638</link>
		<dc:creator>Micky 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/?p=611#comment-8638</guid>
		<description>Yea, I would spray DDT in my yard. 
Its much safer than many of the pesticides on the market today.
Please, find me an account of one American child harmed bt DDT.
I have a file stored on this subject, credit to the appropriate contributors is whithin it. 
Over half a century has passed since the malaria-spraying campaigns first began, and since then millions of people have been exposed to large concentrations of DDT. And according to every single scientific report on the subject, including that of renowned international health scholar Amir Attaran, “there has not been even one peer-reviewed, independently replicated study linking exposure to DDT with any adverse health outcome.” In a 1956 study, volunteers ate raw DDT every day for two-plus years and showed absolutely no ill effects, then or now. “On the other hand,” says physicist Keith Lockitch, “abundant scientific evidence supporting the safety and importance of DDT was presented during seven months of testimony before the newly formed EPA in 1971. The presiding judge ruled unequivocally against a ban. But the publics angry misconceptions against DDT fueled by Silent Spring and the growing environmental movement was so great that a ban was imposed anyway. The EPA administrator at the time hadn’t even bothered to attend the hearings, overruled his own judge and imposed the ban in defiance of all the facts and evidence. And then the 1972 ban in the United States led to an effective worldwide ban, as countries dependent on U.S.-funded aid agencies curtailed their DDT use to comply with those agencies’ demands … On this environmentalist premise the proper attitude to nature is not to seek to improve it for human benefit, but to show ‘humility’ before its ‘vast forces’ and leave it alone. Carson wrote; We should seek not to eliminate malarial mosquitoes with pesticides, but to find instead ‘a reasonable accommodation between the insect hordes and ourselves.’ If the untouched, ‘natural’ state is one in which millions contract deadly diseases, so be it.”
SO BE IT ?

            The following quote also comes from Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring: “The town is almost devoid of robins and starlings; chickadees have not been (present) for two years, and this year the cardinals are gone, too. . . . ‘Will they ever come back?’ the children ask, and I do not have the answer.”
Apart from being an embarrassingly overwritten line of crap, this is just pure fiction. The Audubon Society that was sympathetic to Carson’s claims, has stated that no extinctions or significant loss to bird populations came about through the use of DDT. “Of 40 birds Carson said might by now be extinct or nearly so, 19 have stable populations, 14 have increasing populations, and seven are declining.” (Easterbrook 1995, p. 82.) It should be noted furthermore that the seven listed as “declining” declined only slightly and not through any demonstrable link with DDT.

On the other hand, a malaria-fighter named Fred Soper, who supports the use of DDT, describes malaria in Egypt in 1943  this way:
 “Whole families lying on the floor; some were just too weakened by illness to get up, and others were lying doubled up, shaking from head to foot with their teeth chattering and their violently trembling hands trying in vain to draw some dirty rags around them for warmth. They were in the middle of the malaria crisis. . . . There was hardly a house which had not had its dead, and those who were left were living skeletons, their old clothing in rags, their limbs swollen from undernourishment and too weak to go into the fields to work or even to get food.”

It is the environmentalists who have routinely protested hydroelectric dams, no matter the consequences, forget the fact that hydroelectric dams provide clean electrical energy and clean water. It is also environmentalists who have repeatedly campaigned against genetically modified agriculture, even though this agriculture is remarkably resistant to drought and disease. So it seems only fitting that it was also environmentalists who banned DDT  creating a malaria resurgence which, in the form of millions of Third World residents, is killing and killing up to this very day.

 Earth First! founder Dave Foreman: 
“Ours is an ecological perspective that views Earth as a community and recognizes such apparent enemies as ‘disease’ (e.g., malaria) and ‘pests’ (e.g., mosquitoes) not as manifestations of evil to be overcome but rather as vital and necessary components of a complex and vibrant biosphere.”

That is a tiny taste of the humanity of environmentalism at work for you in the real world.

Here’s some more:

 Robert W. Tracinski, former editor of The Intellectual Activist: 

“Environmentalists seek to protect their de facto ban on logging by preserving the red tape that makes logging on federal land nearly impossible. But more than that, the purpose of the existing system, developed over the past two decades, is not just to bury loggers under paperwork. It is also intended to generate the kind of paperwork that stacks the deck against anyone who wants to put the forests to human use. As a San Francisco Chronicle editorial puts it, in ‘balancing the many competing demands on the forests,’ the existing system ‘puts a premium on protecting old-growth trees and sustaining fish and wildlife.’ That’s a pleasant way of saying that when it comes to deciding who has a right to make use of federal lands, regulators make sure that trees, animals and fish are first on the list. Humans are last."

“But the most nefarious aspect of these existing rules is that they have been imposed with little meaningful public debate or discussion and little direct control by Congress. Past regulations have been imposed in the same manner that the new, less-restrictive process is being adopted: by executive-branch decree. The result of those decrees over the past three decades has been a vast environmentalist land grab, with millions of acres of land sealed off from logging, mining, grazing and even recreation.

“This is a basic technique used by the Left to achieve through the regulatory agencies what they could not achieve in an open vote. The technique is to introduce legislation to achieve some vague, positive-sounding generality, such as ‘worker safety’ or ‘environmental protection’—things no politician will want to go on record voting against. When the legislation is passed and a new regulatory agency is created to enforce it, that’s when the actual decisions are made about what specific restrictions will be imposed and which lands will be removed from human use. Governmental power is passed down to an army of minor bureaucrats who are not accountable to the people and only vaguely accountable to Congress and the president."

“Consider that federal regulatory agencies make thousands of rulings each year, adding about 80,000 pages annually to the Federal Register. Do you think Congress can exercise ‘oversight’ by debating all 80,000 pages of these regulations? Do you think the president, his advisors and his cabinet officers can consider and personally approve all of these decrees? I doubt it. By its nature, the federal decree-issuing mechanism cant be controlled, and it has only one tendency: to impose more regulations and, by filling the register with such restrictions, to make private activities like logging come to a halt.

“These campaigns are proof of the greenies real motives. They want to stop development and keep the third world in povertywhile they work to bring the same ideal of poverty to industrialized nations. Most environmentalists embrace this goal, but few dare to admit it openly so they push a variety of ruses to hide their meaning ranging from ‘sustainable development’ to ‘shrinkth,’ a term suggested by the editor of Earth Island Journal as a less negative-sounding ‘antonym for growth’.”

I have much more on this subject if you would care to continue.
But as you can see I have educated myself to a level on the subject that goes past the tear mongering left,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yea, I would spray DDT in my yard.<br />
Its much safer than many of the pesticides on the market today.<br />
Please, find me an account of one American child harmed bt DDT.<br />
I have a file stored on this subject, credit to the appropriate contributors is whithin it.<br />
Over half a century has passed since the malaria-spraying campaigns first began, and since then millions of people have been exposed to large concentrations of DDT. And according to every single scientific report on the subject, including that of renowned international health scholar Amir Attaran, “there has not been even one peer-reviewed, independently replicated study linking exposure to DDT with any adverse health outcome.” In a 1956 study, volunteers ate raw DDT every day for two-plus years and showed absolutely no ill effects, then or now. “On the other hand,” says physicist Keith Lockitch, “abundant scientific evidence supporting the safety and importance of DDT was presented during seven months of testimony before the newly formed EPA in 1971. The presiding judge ruled unequivocally against a ban. But the publics angry misconceptions against DDT fueled by Silent Spring and the growing environmental movement was so great that a ban was imposed anyway. The EPA administrator at the time hadn’t even bothered to attend the hearings, overruled his own judge and imposed the ban in defiance of all the facts and evidence. And then the 1972 ban in the United States led to an effective worldwide ban, as countries dependent on U.S.-funded aid agencies curtailed their DDT use to comply with those agencies’ demands … On this environmentalist premise the proper attitude to nature is not to seek to improve it for human benefit, but to show ‘humility’ before its ‘vast forces’ and leave it alone. Carson wrote; We should seek not to eliminate malarial mosquitoes with pesticides, but to find instead ‘a reasonable accommodation between the insect hordes and ourselves.’ If the untouched, ‘natural’ state is one in which millions contract deadly diseases, so be it.”<br />
SO BE IT ?</p>
<p>            The following quote also comes from Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring: “The town is almost devoid of robins and starlings; chickadees have not been (present) for two years, and this year the cardinals are gone, too. . . . ‘Will they ever come back?’ the children ask, and I do not have the answer.”<br />
Apart from being an embarrassingly overwritten line of crap, this is just pure fiction. The Audubon Society that was sympathetic to Carson’s claims, has stated that no extinctions or significant loss to bird populations came about through the use of DDT. “Of 40 birds Carson said might by now be extinct or nearly so, 19 have stable populations, 14 have increasing populations, and seven are declining.” (Easterbrook 1995, p. 82.) It should be noted furthermore that the seven listed as “declining” declined only slightly and not through any demonstrable link with DDT.</p>
<p>On the other hand, a malaria-fighter named Fred Soper, who supports the use of DDT, describes malaria in Egypt in 1943  this way:<br />
 “Whole families lying on the floor; some were just too weakened by illness to get up, and others were lying doubled up, shaking from head to foot with their teeth chattering and their violently trembling hands trying in vain to draw some dirty rags around them for warmth. They were in the middle of the malaria crisis. . . . There was hardly a house which had not had its dead, and those who were left were living skeletons, their old clothing in rags, their limbs swollen from undernourishment and too weak to go into the fields to work or even to get food.”</p>
<p>It is the environmentalists who have routinely protested hydroelectric dams, no matter the consequences, forget the fact that hydroelectric dams provide clean electrical energy and clean water. It is also environmentalists who have repeatedly campaigned against genetically modified agriculture, even though this agriculture is remarkably resistant to drought and disease. So it seems only fitting that it was also environmentalists who banned DDT  creating a malaria resurgence which, in the form of millions of Third World residents, is killing and killing up to this very day.</p>
<p> Earth First! founder Dave Foreman:<br />
“Ours is an ecological perspective that views Earth as a community and recognizes such apparent enemies as ‘disease’ (e.g., malaria) and ‘pests’ (e.g., mosquitoes) not as manifestations of evil to be overcome but rather as vital and necessary components of a complex and vibrant biosphere.”</p>
<p>That is a tiny taste of the humanity of environmentalism at work for you in the real world.</p>
<p>Here’s some more:</p>
<p> Robert W. Tracinski, former editor of The Intellectual Activist: </p>
<p>“Environmentalists seek to protect their de facto ban on logging by preserving the red tape that makes logging on federal land nearly impossible. But more than that, the purpose of the existing system, developed over the past two decades, is not just to bury loggers under paperwork. It is also intended to generate the kind of paperwork that stacks the deck against anyone who wants to put the forests to human use. As a San Francisco Chronicle editorial puts it, in ‘balancing the many competing demands on the forests,’ the existing system ‘puts a premium on protecting old-growth trees and sustaining fish and wildlife.’ That’s a pleasant way of saying that when it comes to deciding who has a right to make use of federal lands, regulators make sure that trees, animals and fish are first on the list. Humans are last.&#8221;</p>
<p>“But the most nefarious aspect of these existing rules is that they have been imposed with little meaningful public debate or discussion and little direct control by Congress. Past regulations have been imposed in the same manner that the new, less-restrictive process is being adopted: by executive-branch decree. The result of those decrees over the past three decades has been a vast environmentalist land grab, with millions of acres of land sealed off from logging, mining, grazing and even recreation.</p>
<p>“This is a basic technique used by the Left to achieve through the regulatory agencies what they could not achieve in an open vote. The technique is to introduce legislation to achieve some vague, positive-sounding generality, such as ‘worker safety’ or ‘environmental protection’—things no politician will want to go on record voting against. When the legislation is passed and a new regulatory agency is created to enforce it, that’s when the actual decisions are made about what specific restrictions will be imposed and which lands will be removed from human use. Governmental power is passed down to an army of minor bureaucrats who are not accountable to the people and only vaguely accountable to Congress and the president.&#8221;</p>
<p>“Consider that federal regulatory agencies make thousands of rulings each year, adding about 80,000 pages annually to the Federal Register. Do you think Congress can exercise ‘oversight’ by debating all 80,000 pages of these regulations? Do you think the president, his advisors and his cabinet officers can consider and personally approve all of these decrees? I doubt it. By its nature, the federal decree-issuing mechanism cant be controlled, and it has only one tendency: to impose more regulations and, by filling the register with such restrictions, to make private activities like logging come to a halt.</p>
<p>“These campaigns are proof of the greenies real motives. They want to stop development and keep the third world in povertywhile they work to bring the same ideal of poverty to industrialized nations. Most environmentalists embrace this goal, but few dare to admit it openly so they push a variety of ruses to hide their meaning ranging from ‘sustainable development’ to ‘shrinkth,’ a term suggested by the editor of Earth Island Journal as a less negative-sounding ‘antonym for growth’.”</p>
<p>I have much more on this subject if you would care to continue.<br />
But as you can see I have educated myself to a level on the subject that goes past the tear mongering left,</p>
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		<title>By: Jersey McJones</title>
		<link>http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2008/07/ideological-bigotry-part-xv-hatreds-finale-from-amy-klein/#comment-8637</link>
		<dc:creator>Jersey McJones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/?p=611#comment-8637</guid>
		<description>And by the way, "global warming" is probably not the only reason for the CCD, but rather a host of reasons including cross-breeding, mass domestication, pesticides, and so forth.

JMJ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And by the way, &#8220;global warming&#8221; is probably not the only reason for the CCD, but rather a host of reasons including cross-breeding, mass domestication, pesticides, and so forth.</p>
<p>JMJ</p>
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		<title>By: Jersey McJones</title>
		<link>http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2008/07/ideological-bigotry-part-xv-hatreds-finale-from-amy-klein/#comment-8636</link>
		<dc:creator>Jersey McJones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/?p=611#comment-8636</guid>
		<description>"Cyclical bee disease"?  Where do you guys get these loony rationalizations from???

JMJ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Cyclical bee disease&#8221;?  Where do you guys get these loony rationalizations from???</p>
<p>JMJ</p>
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		<title>By: Jersey McJones</title>
		<link>http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2008/07/ideological-bigotry-part-xv-hatreds-finale-from-amy-klein/#comment-8635</link>
		<dc:creator>Jersey McJones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/?p=611#comment-8635</guid>
		<description>So, you have a garden, and if I'm not mistaken a child and a dog, right?

Would YOU spray DDT on your garden?

JMJ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, you have a garden, and if I&#8217;m not mistaken a child and a dog, right?</p>
<p>Would YOU spray DDT on your garden?</p>
<p>JMJ</p>
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		<title>By: Micky 2</title>
		<link>http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2008/07/ideological-bigotry-part-xv-hatreds-finale-from-amy-klein/#comment-8631</link>
		<dc:creator>Micky 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 02:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/?p=611#comment-8631</guid>
		<description>Yea, veggie weenie roasts and smores are going to be a big sin in Seattle if the greenies get their way.
They're trying to push through legislation that outlaws camp fires because its bad for the atmosphere.
http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/environment/pollution/news.php?q=1213206192

Where will they sing Kumbaya ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yea, veggie weenie roasts and smores are going to be a big sin in Seattle if the greenies get their way.<br />
They&#8217;re trying to push through legislation that outlaws camp fires because its bad for the atmosphere.<br />
<a href="http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/environment/pollution/news.php?q=1213206192" rel="nofollow">http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/environment/pollution/news.php?q=1213206192</a></p>
<p>Where will they sing Kumbaya ?</p>
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		<title>By: timbudd</title>
		<link>http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2008/07/ideological-bigotry-part-xv-hatreds-finale-from-amy-klein/#comment-8630</link>
		<dc:creator>timbudd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/?p=611#comment-8630</guid>
		<description>Just like Meryl Streep testifying about the incredible harm alar was doing to our apple eating children. Or global warming being responsibel for the bee population decline (it was a cyclical bee disease). The list goes on and on ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just like Meryl Streep testifying about the incredible harm alar was doing to our apple eating children. Or global warming being responsibel for the bee population decline (it was a cyclical bee disease). The list goes on and on &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Micky 2</title>
		<link>http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2008/07/ideological-bigotry-part-xv-hatreds-finale-from-amy-klein/#comment-8626</link>
		<dc:creator>Micky 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/?p=611#comment-8626</guid>
		<description>Yes, it made me 50,000.00 dollars on one year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it made me 50,000.00 dollars on one year.</p>
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		<title>By: Jersey McJones</title>
		<link>http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2008/07/ideological-bigotry-part-xv-hatreds-finale-from-amy-klein/#comment-8625</link>
		<dc:creator>Jersey McJones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/?p=611#comment-8625</guid>
		<description>Micky, have you ever had a garden?

JMJ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Micky, have you ever had a garden?</p>
<p>JMJ</p>
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