As for Iran, you are right Jersey about the general population. That said, they have to have a voice to exercise change. They don’t have it at the moment. The Grand Council moved to prevent that voice from being heard, and insuring Ahmadenijad’s power remained. You must also remember that the current members of the Grand Council are old. Their successors are younger, more militant, and more fundamentalist. There isn’t an “immediate threat,” but there is one that is looming on the near horizon, say 4-5 years from now.

Another thing here, you, Jersey, are applying a “coventional wisdom/logic” to a religiously run state. The current Iranian leadership are not students of Real Politik. They haven’t read Von Clausewitz or Sun Tzu. They act not from enlightened self interest, but from religious fundamentalism. This by definition means that do not follow the “standard rules” of states.

As for Iran not attacking Israel, well, I would say that is true in a conventional military sense. But as has been pointed out, Iran has been acting through front organizations, such as Hezb’allah, since the early 80’s. Hez is primarily funded by Iran, and trained by the IRG/Kutz Force. This has been known, widely, since the mid-80’s.

What does Iran funding Hamas and Hezzbolla have to do with me wanting to bomb anyone anywhere ?

And while I’m at El Baradei can blow it out his rump.
He knows as well as anyone that Israel will never allow Iran to attack them with nukes.
Which really makes you whole arguement mute and useless.

Anyone with any common sense that is informed is well aware of the threat Iran poses. And so that threat is being dealt with.
get over it.
Oh yea.
Have some cajones and try to answer to some of the points I made instead of just coming back with some other subject as a means to dodge the issue here.

You cant, you lost your butt on this one because common knowledge, facts abd history are against you as pointed out by Timbudd, Deaconblue,Norm and myself.
All you have is a personal viewpoint dictated by hatred for anything right or connected to Bush.
Please, you’re arguement is so weak and naive its almost got me concerned for you.

JMJ

The concerns relating to Irans nuke potential has reached everywhere from the IAEA last week as they mentioned with deep concern at the UN to Israels intelligenceto our own American intelligence.
All the intelligence points to one thing.
And you actually think that anyone is going to believe you over them ?
Get a grip bro.
And then theres the actions Iran is perfoming in Iraq against our soldiers and the weapons they are providing to the insurgency.
They are funding Hamas and Hezzbola so that they may terrorise Israel.
And you think they wont attack Israel when THEY HAVE BEEN DOING IT DAILY FOR YEARS NOW !!!!!

You are so wrapped up in your mission to discount anything that the right say it has impared whatever ability you have left to think straight.

This conversation is over if you are not going to be honest and adress the issues I listed

Check this out…

JMJ

As for Iran attacking Israel, there is no historical precedent, no national interest beyond just the political baiting, and in pretty much every way you look at it Iran would be taking a completely unacceptable and inane risk attacking Israel. To anyone educated about the world around them, Iran attacking Israel makes no sense whatsoever. It’s just plain paranoid and yes, stupid, no offense intended. Yes, Iran would like to be the Big Boy on the Midel Eastern Block, and that may or may not be a good thing (in life, it’s usually a combination), but on the other hand Iran has a very young population, the Iranians people are educated and becoming more and more progressive and secular, and positive change in the future may well be on the way - unless of course dummy imperialists screw it all up like they did in 1953.

As for the EU and Iran, remember that the EU is roughly as dependent on foreign oil as we are, but have much a better global relations outlook for the future, and have many more suppliers than we do. On top of that, Iran makes for a tiny percentage of imported oil there (http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/nte21871.htm). Heck, WE export more oil to the EU than does Iran. Iran DOES NOT have the EU over a barrel - or a drum for that matter.

Micky, I’m sorry but everything you’re saying sounds comic-bookish and ridiculous. I have addressed you’re points. Please make some new ones.

Blogmasterpg said it right (Hello my Italian friend! My grandfathers family immigrated from Naples!) - the relationship between Europe and Israel is complex and ambiguous. The belief that Europe somehow has it out for Israel is again comic-bookish and silly.

Ciao, JMJ

“The European Union has never recognized Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.”

“The propaganda is so bad. Israel is part of the terror, yet Israel does not exist.”

This and a whole lot more is all part of the New World Order. The politic elite run the world and the current Israel elite are part and parcel in their quest for oneness; as in ONE WORLD. There will never be peace in Israel until the New World Order cartel is broken up…rather slayed like a dragon but I didn’t want to be accused of wanting to kill the SOB’s (because I can name names).

For someone who is supposed to know so much about the Iranian government you are a huge disappointment.

So far you cannot controvert a thing I have said in regards to Israeli intelligence knowing more than you.

That Iranians are definitly suicidal. As proven in history and by hezzbola and hamas.

The fact that very few people actually run the Itanian government as opposed to the great diverse and delegated parliament you say they have.
Any fool knows its a dictatorship

Or the fact that Israel is recieving permission from many surrounding neighbors as we speak to launch a strike on Iran.
(Watch the news)

And that Iran is a state sponsor of two of the largest terrorist organizations that exist mostly to destroy Israel. And are trying to do so as we speak.
(Fact)

Simply put. Iran is and has been attacking Israel for decades now.
(Fact)

And in your fantasy world you think its going to stop.
When anyone with the most limited of senses can see that it has never subsided, has only gotten worse and by all indications will get worse.

So, I guess your next response will be some emotional rant instead of facts that will controvert what I say.
You will tell me I dont know what I’m talking about and expect me to believe all that you say is fact.

All you have are clues.
I have real facts and history to back up my claims.

All you do is insist and insist.

Good luck with that in the real world.

I do get a kick out of how you try to belittle those opposed to you thorugh thinly veiled insults, as it shows how juvenile you are acting.

Now, as for the Russians and Chinese, neither are in a viable position to really do much about what the US does. Russia is so frctured ATM, and so busy dealing with its former client-state “republics,” that it can barely handle a gas deal with the EU, let alone take on the US in any way. Yes, China can wield some powerful economic weapons. But they can’t do anyone any permanent harm outside of mainland Asia. Their ability to project power is so limited, they can barely threaten Taiwan. Even the Vietnamese were able to stymie them, and that was after fighting a 20 year war and an invasion of Cambodia. China can only really act through her proxies, mainly in Africa, which aren’t able to do much to threaten the USA.

As for Iran, yes Khameni isn’t all that interested in suicide, but if he gets “that old time religion,” don’t think he won’t authorize Ahmadenijad to push the button. The Grand Council of Ayatollahs has manipulated the electoral process in Iran to ensure that the “radicals” hold on to power. They forced Khatemi out, and have acted to keep Ahmadenijad in power. Ahmadenijad and Khameni both also remember the assistance that Israel and Mossad gave to the Shah and SAVAK. They want revenge, and have stated as such.

The proposition that “Iran hasn’t attacked anyone for 200 years” is on the surface true, but says nothing as to why. The why is rather simple. Iran was surrounded by superior empires for those 200 years. The Russians to the North, the British to the East, the Ottomans, and later the British to the West. It was for lack of want that they didn’t attack, it was that they faced annihilation if they did so. Iran also didn’t start to modernize untill 1910, leaving them 50-100 years behind their neighbors. So to try and say that Iran is somehow “peaceful” and “nonbeligerent,” is disingenuous.

As for Iran and the EU, well, that’s a two edged sword. Iran is more capable of recovering from the loss of business with the Eu than the Eu is capable of recovering from the loss of Iranian oil. Iran can sell to China and India. Where will the EU get its oil from? The EU is literally “over a barrel” when it comes to Iran, and Ahmadenijad and Khameni know this. Should Iran attack Israel, the EU will only act in a half hearted manner. They have enough problems as is, with out adding in an additional oil crisis. As such, they won’t be willing to “go the distance” should that event come to pass. Just look at how Europe reacted to the last oil crisis.