American voters are anti-Baldites!!!!

BHG

You loose. You lost.
You made a statement that you cant back up.
Torture worked on KSM. This is fact , and relevant to this debate.
Torture worked on McCain, he is on record twice saying it. This is fact ,and relevant to this debate.
And you and McCain have not proved that torture does not work. This is fact , and relevant to this debate.
All issues have been clarified and settled by me.

See ya.

JMJ

JMJ;
“Look, when it comes to “torture” and all that implies, I don’t have some perfect black line. ”

Most of the implications are based on your opinion.
To me it implies doing what we have to do.
To you it implies something bad.
But the F A C T is that it works.

Look, when it comes to “torture” and all that implies, I don’t have some perfect black line. The Russert ‘Nightmare Scenario” rubs that out (no adolesecnt innuendo intended). There is a time for everything under the sun, after all. Remember, FDR dealt with the German domestic threat quietly, with who knows what - and that’s the point. We don’t don’t know what. The Bush administration is too inept to get away with anything. With that in mind, its best they just stick to the book, so to speak.

Hopefully the next administration, whoever they are, will tend to things more tactfully, realistically, and necessarily. This bunch of morons we have running things now are just making everything worse - and making themselves look no better than our ostensible foes. Bush and the GOP just lost their biggest fight yet yesterday on the Hill. Their power has been checked. The duck is officially, finally, lame. If I were them, I’d stop fighting from the low-brow position. There’s nothing to gain from that crowd anymore. The low-brows will not determine the next president. Play to the better angels of the better voters.

JMJ

If I think McCain has made conflicting statements, thats fine. Maybe he has changed his mind on the issue and then thats all he has to say.

JMJ;
“If you want to be a civilized American, a beacon of human rights for the world to admire,”

I want to protect my country first. I’ll worry about what other people think about me last.
I am the least bit interested in being a “beacon of human rights” And if anyone deserves ” rights” Its the American people who have a right to be protected by their government. I hardly think that anyone in their right mind would place our ethics and ROE anywhere near those of our enemy. Please, stop the nonsense.
We are fighting a war, not a popularity contest.

He may say now that iy doesnt work , fine. But that is not what he said in 99. FACT!
And you said he proved it does not work.
Neither you or him has proven that torture does nbot work. FACT!

I read the article Jersey, so what ?
McCain is on record as saying twice that the torture worked on him.
But also what you failed to mention ( again) is that in your link it also says;

“McCain’s legislation would apply only to the Defense Department. It would not interfere with CIA’s disturbing practice of rendition - turning suspects over to foreign governments that routinely use torture. It would require all Defense Department personnel to treat prisoners in accordance with an Army field manual. It also would bar cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment of detainees in accordance with American law and international treaties”

Read that and think about it a little
Also…
It says nothing about nor does it even approach waterboarding. And his bill even still lets interogation go to other countries. It applies only to our Defense Department.

But , before I get carried into other subjects that are little relevance here.
The main issue is that you claimed McCain proved that torture doesnt work. Nothing could be further from the truth. No one has proved anything. Its just an opinion.

On the other hand it has been proven that torture/waterboarding worked on KSM. He said so himself. And even if he denied its effectivness the amount of info derived from his sessions speaks volumes to its effectivness.

And lay off the personal attack by suggesting I hook up with Al Queda.
That was stupid.

Nothing. Useless.

“To those who say we should use any technique to obtain intelligence, McCain says: “Torture doesn’t work.” And he should know.”

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/07/29/Opinion/_Torture_doesn_t_work_.shtml

Micky, if you want to torture people AQ is always looking for new recruits. You can sign up any time. If you want to be a civilized American, a beacon of human rights for the world to admire, then stick with people like McCain. I may not agree with a lot of his politics, but as a human being he is an unquestionably good and decent man.

JMJ