Comments on: 4 Fine Men http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/09/4-fine-men/ Drinking the love from her Holy Grail Thu, 18 Mar 2010 01:56:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Jersey McJones http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/09/4-fine-men/#comment-1416 Jersey McJones Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:48:22 +0000 http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/4-fine-men/#comment-1416 To tolerate intolerance, Gunny, is to endorse it. I do not endorse the clanism of religion. I do not endorse the irrationality of faith. I wish religion would disappear from the face of the Earth - not the religious people, mind you, just the religion itself. But wishing it away won't do much, so I do always offer to engage religious people to try to disuade them from the error of their ways. NATO? Well, it seems to have accomplished it's mission just by existing - Peace. It's just a treaty organization with a specific focus on keeping the peace in Europe, Gunny. What? Should it be doing something else that I don't know? JMJ To tolerate intolerance, Gunny, is to endorse it. I do not endorse the clanism of religion. I do not endorse the irrationality of faith. I wish religion would disappear from the face of the Earth - not the religious people, mind you, just the religion itself. But wishing it away won’t do much, so I do always offer to engage religious people to try to disuade them from the error of their ways.

NATO? Well, it seems to have accomplished it’s mission just by existing - Peace. It’s just a treaty organization with a specific focus on keeping the peace in Europe, Gunny. What? Should it be doing something else that I don’t know?

JMJ

]]> By: GunnyG http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/09/4-fine-men/#comment-1417 GunnyG Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:18:27 +0000 http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/4-fine-men/#comment-1417 Jersey, Name one operation that NATO has handled well. I used them as an example in one of my papers in my MA program for Joint Operations. I could find nothing that they have done well. Sorry, but that is the facts. Hmm, you really seem to hate religion. Is that the tolerant liberal in you coming out? Jersey,

Name one operation that NATO has handled well. I used them as an example in one of my papers in my MA program for Joint Operations. I could find nothing that they have done well. Sorry, but that is the facts.

Hmm, you really seem to hate religion. Is that the tolerant liberal in you coming out?

]]> By: Jersey McJones http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/09/4-fine-men/#comment-1418 Jersey McJones Sun, 09 Sep 2007 17:56:04 +0000 http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/4-fine-men/#comment-1418 Carole, you said, "How can two reasonably intelligent people look at the same person and see polar opposites in that person?" Well, look at it this way: Bush was a failure in the private sector, a no-show in the service, a mediocre figure-head in the MLB, a governor in a state with a about the weakest exectutive in the nation, had to resort to very, very sleazy campaign tactics to get elected (Ann Richarson a "lesbian"? John McCain "unAmerican"? etc), has a long record of gaffes, mistatements, mispronouncements and misunderstandings, had a mediocre acedemic career,and so on. I see a man who thinks he's serious, perhaps, but not someone who really knows what serious is. You make a fair point - we don't really know the man. But we do know a lot about him. From everything I've read, heard, and seen, he does not impress me in the least. He never did. And I've been following his antics since the 80's. I'm a pretty fair person and a very good judge of character. I don't agree with William Buckley Jr very much, but he's obviously a brilliant man. Even if I disagree with someone, I can still peg them down pretty well. Gunny, oh God no, now NATO sucks? What exactly doesn't suck to you? Is there anything in this world that doesn't suck? Is it that the only thing that doesn't suck is flag-waving, God-fearing conservative Americans from Flyover Jesusland? Okay, I'll bite. What is it about NATO that you don't like? Is it just the seemingly adolescent assertion that you believe that they're wimps? Because if that's it, then I'm not biting after all. JMJ Carole, you said, “How can two reasonably intelligent people look at the same person and see polar opposites in that person?” Well, look at it this way: Bush was a failure in the private sector, a no-show in the service, a mediocre figure-head in the MLB, a governor in a state with a about the weakest exectutive in the nation, had to resort to very, very sleazy campaign tactics to get elected (Ann Richarson a “lesbian”? John McCain “unAmerican”? etc), has a long record of gaffes, mistatements, mispronouncements and misunderstandings, had a mediocre acedemic career,and so on. I see a man who thinks he’s serious, perhaps, but not someone who really knows what serious is. You make a fair point - we don’t really know the man. But we do know a lot about him. From everything I’ve read, heard, and seen, he does not impress me in the least. He never did. And I’ve been following his antics since the 80’s. I’m a pretty fair person and a very good judge of character. I don’t agree with William Buckley Jr very much, but he’s obviously a brilliant man. Even if I disagree with someone, I can still peg them down pretty well.

Gunny, oh God no, now NATO sucks? What exactly doesn’t suck to you? Is there anything in this world that doesn’t suck? Is it that the only thing that doesn’t suck is flag-waving, God-fearing conservative Americans from Flyover Jesusland?

Okay, I’ll bite. What is it about NATO that you don’t like? Is it just the seemingly adolescent assertion that you believe that they’re wimps? Because if that’s it, then I’m not biting after all.

JMJ

]]> By: GunnyG http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/09/4-fine-men/#comment-1438 GunnyG Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:38:09 +0000 http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/4-fine-men/#comment-1438 Jersey, How incredibly naive you are. NATO sucks. It always HAS sucked. Remember the Balkans? NATO could not even handle the problem in theie OWN BACKYARD. They had to dial 800-HELPUSA. I've worked with NATO troops in Portugal, Belgium, and Netherlands and let me be the first to say it...they could not fight their way out of a thick fog. LEFTward's suggestion of a CITO made those of us IN the intel field LLAMF. You think that the wall between the CIA/FBI that Jamie Gorelick and Janet Reno erected was bad... Jersey,

How incredibly naive you are. NATO sucks. It always HAS sucked. Remember the Balkans? NATO could not even handle the problem in theie OWN BACKYARD. They had to dial 800-HELPUSA.

I’ve worked with NATO troops in Portugal, Belgium, and Netherlands and let me be the first to say it…they could not fight their way out of a thick fog.

LEFTward’s suggestion of a CITO made those of us IN the intel field LLAMF. You think that the wall between the CIA/FBI that Jamie Gorelick and Janet Reno erected was bad…

]]> By: Carole http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/09/4-fine-men/#comment-1437 Carole Sun, 09 Sep 2007 03:21:40 +0000 http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/4-fine-men/#comment-1437 J? Are you serious? I agree with your initial theory about presidents feeling the weight of the office. And I was mentally nodding my head thinking Clinton didn't....when you said that about 'the current president.'. It is mind boggling to realize that when you look at Bush you see a man 'incapable' of doing so, when I see the complete opposite. In fact, I see a man so serious about his responsibility to the office, that he doesn't let transient things like polls affect him as others have; so respectful of the office that he has been graciousness itself to ex-presidents and first ladies that have vilified him in public...and for that same reason, he doesn't answer the plethora of vitriol aimed at him by those afflicted with what others called 'Bush derangement syndrome'. How can two reasonably intelligent people look at the same person and see polar opposites in that person? I have to assume it comes from what we are predisposed to see, somehow. I read a bit of a book by Thomas Sowell that asks a similar question, only about the world view of those on the left and right. He came up with a very interesting theory that persons predisposed to see the world in one way end up on one end of the spectrum, while those another way, the other end. I am doing it no justice, and not owning or having read the entire book, I cannot go into enough detail to discuss it. But that idea, and your diametrically opposed take on Bush, makes me really question just how real the reality we think we see is. Thought provoking. J? Are you serious? I agree with your initial theory about presidents feeling the weight of the office. And I was mentally nodding my head thinking Clinton didn’t….when you said that about ‘the current president.’.

It is mind boggling to realize that when you look at Bush you see a man ‘incapable’ of doing so, when I see the complete opposite. In fact, I see a man so serious about his responsibility to the office, that he doesn’t let transient things like polls affect him as others have; so respectful of the office that he has been graciousness itself to ex-presidents and first ladies that have vilified him in public…and for that same reason, he doesn’t answer the plethora of vitriol aimed at him by those afflicted with what others called ‘Bush derangement syndrome’.

How can two reasonably intelligent people look at the same person and see polar opposites in that person? I have to assume it comes from what we are predisposed to see, somehow. I read a bit of a book by Thomas Sowell that asks a similar question, only about the world view of those on the left and right. He came up with a very interesting theory that persons predisposed to see the world in one way end up on one end of the spectrum, while those another way, the other end. I am doing it no justice, and not owning or having read the entire book, I cannot go into enough detail to discuss it.

But that idea, and your diametrically opposed take on Bush, makes me really question just how real the reality we think we see is. Thought provoking.

]]> By: micky2 http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/09/4-fine-men/#comment-1436 micky2 Sat, 08 Sep 2007 23:53:43 +0000 http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/4-fine-men/#comment-1436 As far as Ron Paul goes, I cant help but be cynical when it comes to him. If there is any benefit to the race starting so early its that we get time to sift out the weirdos. I dont want Ron Paul anywhere near the button. Shouldnt we just start campaigning year round from now on ? I mean what the hell ? Christmas shows up before Halloween these days. Pretty soon we'll see Christmas sales in March. Are we that bored as a society that we have to keep moving everything forward to the point where it becomes a big blur ? As far as Ron Paul goes, I cant help but be cynical when it comes to him. If there is any benefit to the race starting so early its that we get time to sift out the weirdos.
I dont want Ron Paul anywhere near the button.

Shouldnt we just start campaigning year round from now on ?
I mean what the hell ? Christmas shows up before Halloween these days.
Pretty soon we’ll see Christmas sales in March.
Are we that bored as a society that we have to keep moving everything forward to the point where it becomes a big blur ?

]]> By: Jersey McJones http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/09/4-fine-men/#comment-1435 Jersey McJones Sat, 08 Sep 2007 22:24:11 +0000 http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/4-fine-men/#comment-1435 Gunny, I think Giuliani was mad at the UN diplomats for stiffing the city on parking fines and such. ;) But seriously, Giuliani is mad at the UN for not doing something it can't do. It's all moot. I like Edwards' "CITO" idea. A sort of NATO for terrorism. Sounds like a good idea to me. Look it up. Anyways... Speaking as a realistic pragmatist, political assuasion aside, I have a theory about presidents and the "weight of the office" - Some presidents feel "the weight of the office" and some do not. I honestly do not believe that our current president feels the weight of the office of the president. I don't think he's really capable of it. I truly believe that he's not a very intelligent person. For that reason, I don't really blame him for his foibles. I do blame his cohorts, though. Their conflicted culpability for what has happened to America over the past some-odd years is palpably evident, hiding in plain sight, so to speak. Because of Bush's lack of ability, he has been unable to impose his will, for whatever that's worth, upon his administration. It's a de facto administration by delegation, and the delegation is composed entirely of conflicted interests. From mining accidents to the war to the collapsing infrastructure to the impending recession, this administration has steered the country toward failures in the name of personal profit. And that's why Bush has utterly failed America and will be remembered that way. It's a tragedy. Some say Hoover's story was tragic, but in a way Bush's is more so - poor George never could have understood what he was dealt while Hoover could have. I do think that a president Giuliani, or McCain, or Huckabee would feel the weight of the office and act relatively responsibly. Perhaps Romney as well. I do not believe any of that four would be foolish enough to stay the course of this current administration. They will say whatever they have to say to get elected, but I do believe that once in office they will act more on our behalf then just to be a puppet under the strings of the corporatocracy. Brownback , however, would not feel the weight of the office. He's an idiot. Thompson? It's hard to tell. What all this comes down to is the ability to make truly tough decisions, as opposed to "tough" decisions that are only tough on everyone but the "decider." Bush's father was destroyed for breaking the "read my lips" promise, but most economists, and even myself, agree that the Bush I/Foley/Rostenkowsky budget deal was the main impetus of the budget balancing of the later 90's. Clinton and Gingrich take the credit, but Bush I, Foley, and Ros deserve more of it. It's all about balance of power and interests and a president who feels the weight of the office. Bush I's own GOP turned on him for doing the right, responsible thing. Giuiliani was smart not to make any prognostigating promises. So, that's my take on this post. JMJ Gunny, I think Giuliani was mad at the UN diplomats for stiffing the city on parking fines and such. ;) But seriously, Giuliani is mad at the UN for not doing something it can’t do. It’s all moot. I like Edwards’ “CITO” idea. A sort of NATO for terrorism. Sounds like a good idea to me. Look it up.

Anyways…

Speaking as a realistic pragmatist, political assuasion aside, I have a theory about presidents and the “weight of the office” - Some presidents feel “the weight of the office” and some do not. I honestly do not believe that our current president feels the weight of the office of the president. I don’t think he’s really capable of it. I truly believe that he’s not a very intelligent person. For that reason, I don’t really blame him for his foibles. I do blame his cohorts, though. Their conflicted culpability for what has happened to America over the past some-odd years is palpably evident, hiding in plain sight, so to speak. Because of Bush’s lack of ability, he has been unable to impose his will, for whatever that’s worth, upon his administration. It’s a de facto administration by delegation, and the delegation is composed entirely of conflicted interests. From mining accidents to the war to the collapsing infrastructure to the impending recession, this administration has steered the country toward failures in the name of personal profit. And that’s why Bush has utterly failed America and will be remembered that way. It’s a tragedy. Some say Hoover’s story was tragic, but in a way Bush’s is more so - poor George never could have understood what he was dealt while Hoover could have.

I do think that a president Giuliani, or McCain, or Huckabee would feel the weight of the office and act relatively responsibly. Perhaps Romney as well. I do not believe any of that four would be foolish enough to stay the course of this current administration. They will say whatever they have to say to get elected, but I do believe that once in office they will act more on our behalf then just to be a puppet under the strings of the corporatocracy. Brownback , however, would not feel the weight of the office. He’s an idiot. Thompson? It’s hard to tell. What all this comes down to is the ability to make truly tough decisions, as opposed to “tough” decisions that are only tough on everyone but the “decider.”

Bush’s father was destroyed for breaking the “read my lips” promise, but most economists, and even myself, agree that the Bush I/Foley/Rostenkowsky budget deal was the main impetus of the budget balancing of the later 90’s. Clinton and Gingrich take the credit, but Bush I, Foley, and Ros deserve more of it. It’s all about balance of power and interests and a president who feels the weight of the office. Bush I’s own GOP turned on him for doing the right, responsible thing. Giuiliani was smart not to make any prognostigating promises.

So, that’s my take on this post.

JMJ

]]> By: Carole http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/09/4-fine-men/#comment-1434 Carole Sat, 08 Sep 2007 21:52:36 +0000 http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/4-fine-men/#comment-1434 Mickster! Yes, it is difficult to feel really good about a candidate now...and it also seems as if we have started the pre-season game season a lot earlier than usual. Mostly the jury is still out for me....except with HRC. LOL re your comment on Ron Paul!!! I don't think he really was ever a serious contender, was he? Mickster!

Yes, it is difficult to feel really good about a candidate now…and it also seems as if we have started the pre-season game season a lot earlier than usual. Mostly the jury is still out for me….except with HRC.

LOL re your comment on Ron Paul!!! I don’t think he really was ever a serious contender, was he?

]]> By: Carole http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/09/4-fine-men/#comment-1433 Carole Sat, 08 Sep 2007 21:47:16 +0000 http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/4-fine-men/#comment-1433 Oh, and yeah!! Me too on the UN, Gunny. ;-> Oh, and yeah!! Me too on the UN, Gunny. ;->

]]> By: Carole http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/09/4-fine-men/#comment-1432 Carole Sat, 08 Sep 2007 21:45:43 +0000 http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/4-fine-men/#comment-1432 Gunny, what is your take on that article you cited? I read the interview with Beck and it was confusing as to what G was really saying. I stopped when I read that he wants to close the border to illegal immigration, which addresses my main security issue with immigration. What did you think? Gunny, what is your take on that article you cited? I read the interview with Beck and it was confusing as to what G was really saying. I stopped when I read that he wants to close the border to illegal immigration, which addresses my main security issue with immigration. What did you think?

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